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[Guru3D] AMD Readies 14nm Zen - up-to 40 percent faster IPC performance - Page 25

post #241 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

It is not "up to", it is 40% flat. Which means on average. Other than that you keep making the same mistake. 40% over EX sounds outlandish to you because you are conditioned with what happened between SB to IB to HW or between PD to SR to EX etc. whereas you should expect a jump more like Prescott to Conroe or more precisely Excavator to Ivy Bridge. Because judging by core design, this is exactly what is happening. Paradigm shift.

good luck disappointing yourself though.

but my point still stands, price point shouldn't be close to intel's.
even if i gave it a very optimistic view, 6c/12t zen beating i7-5820K in performance is next to a miracle.

maximum price point to stay competitive:
haswell cost efficiency = 100% ( $390 i7-5820K @ 100% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 115% ( $325 6c/12t zen @ 95% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 117% ( $300 6c/12t zen @ 90% perf )
haswell cost efficiency = 101% ( $340 i7-4790K @ 88% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 122% ( $275 4c/8t? zen @ 86% perf )
haswell cost efficiency = 107% ( $240 i5-4790K @ 66% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 123% ( $200 4c/8t? zen @ 63% perf )
vishera cost efficiency = 153% ( $135 FX-8320E 53% perf )

if you ever place 6c/12t anywhere near $350 it'd go below 100% cost efficiency compared to haswell.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 9:38am
post #242 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

good luck disappointing yourself though.

but my point still stands, price point shouldn't be close to intel's.
even if i gave it a very optimistic view, 6c/12t zen beating i7-5820K in performance is next to a miracle.

maximum price point to stay competitive:
haswell cost efficiency = 100% ( $390 i7-5820K @ 100% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 115% ( $325 6c/12t zen @ 95% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 117% ( $300 6c/12t zen @ 90% perf )
haswell cost efficiency = 101% ( $340 i7-4790K @ 88% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 122% ( $275 4c/8t? zen @ 86% perf )
haswell cost efficiency = 107% ( $240 i5-4790K @ 66% perf )
zen cost efficiency = 123% ( $200 4c/8t? zen @ 63% perf )
vishera cost efficiency = 153% ( $135 FX-8320E 53% perf )

if you ever place 6c/12t anywhere near $350 it'd go below 100% cost efficiency compared to haswell.

This whole discussion is moot for multiple reasons. First there is no linear relationship between price and performance and we have covered that days ago with the 5930 to 5960X example. On top of that for some peculiar reason you seem to think ST performance is the only performance metric, it isn't. Also most likely Zen motherboards will be cheaper than X99 ones, since it will share the AM4 socket with mainstream processors, driving the platform cost lower. You are just way off in multiple levels.
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post #243 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

this got me thinking, how experienced is AMD in handling SMT?
the first time Intel took up HyperThreading it went south in terms of power efficiency, and literally caused single-thread IPC to plummet due to cache trashing.

Fair point i seem to remember the same as you when HTT was first introduced it really wasn't usefull, granted Multi-threaded apps hadn't taken off yet but it most if not always costed a chunk of performance rather than todays HTT. If my memory holds correct.

I also agree on pricing. If AMD can gain some ground pricing they will do so, and if they're competitive this go round they should do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRUSH View Post

2016 is a long way out... I sure hope the wait is worth it. Minimum Sandy IPC with more relevant instructions please. I'd love a powerful AMD cpu that I can use for my needs now and not silly cherry picked scenarios or what we speculate the future holds lol.

I get that multi-threading is the future. But there are crazy amounts of people who use and will continue to use apps/games that run on 1-2 threads. Those threads need to be beastly and always will.

Let's face it, we need the horsepower to push through old and/or poor optimization. That will not change, ever.

Agreed, had the future played out like AMD thought it would or so it seems they thought considering bulldozer's design they would be in pretty decent standing right now.
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post #244 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

This whole discussion is moot for multiple reasons. First there is no linear relationship between price and performance and we have covered that days ago with the 5930 to 5960X example. On top of that for some peculiar reason you seem to think ST performance is the only performance metric, it isn't. Also most likely Zen motherboards will be cheaper than X99 ones, since it will share the AM4 socket with mainstream processors, driving the platform cost lower. You are just way off in multiple levels.

how is comparing 6c/12t i7-5820K to 6c/12t zen a moot point? you're spectacular.
post #245 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

5820K is selling at low price.

There is noway AMD can sell hex core higher than 5820K if they areonly manage to reach 3930K/4930K performance. Even we are given the same performance, AMD is knowned as "cheaper solution", so they have to always undercut Intel.

I will always pick intel if the performance is same @ the same price.

I am talking about LAUNCH PRICEs

not market prices x months down the road
post #246 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormscion View Post

I am talking about LAUNCH PRICEs

not market prices x months down the road

well, most AMD fanboys would undoubtably buy into it regardless of price so i guess AMD wouldn't lose much face even if its overpriced for a month or two.
but do we really need another flamboyant idiot who takes sadism to another level? and here i thought AMD already learned their lesson with their FX9000 series.

ah but zen is in due by 2016, skylake-K will be out this year, and i heard broadwell-E will be out early 2016 too, then theres that skylake-E rumor taking over broadwell-E.
i wonder if that rumor about 8core chips landing at $550 has any truth in it.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 9:58am
post #247 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

well, most AMD fanboys would undoubtably buy into it regardless of price so i guess AMD wouldn't lose much face even if its overpriced for a month or two.
but do we really need another flamboyant idiot who takes sadism to another level? and here i thought AMD already learned their lesson with their FX9000 series.

You could argue entire graphics card segment is "overpriced" with GPUs going at insane 4 digit numbers ... but you know what they are selling them so yea , if they can sell them at high price they will do it.
Same goes for FX9xxx series and intel i7 high end stuff. People buy them companies make profit. Ofc it is not best price to performance ration but people that buy them dont care about money in same way you or I do smile.gif
Edited by Stormscion - 5/20/15 at 10:03am
post #248 of 334
thats why i'm complaining about you guys insisting overpriced estimates, it'll keep going up if you guys don't start wanting things cheaper.

ohh and, spread the word about AMD's "insta-drop price after x month" so more people stop buying on day-1.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 10:20am
post #249 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

thats why i'm complaining about you guys insisting overpriced estimates, it'll keep going up if you guys don't start wanting things cheaper.

i want them selling Zen at 80 haha. Dreaming is one thing and being realistic is another. We aren't talking consumer GPUs here, if AMD manages its performance targets , price will follow, especially in server/HPC grade chips where brand preference doesn't apply much.
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post #250 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

i want them selling Zen at 80 haha. Dreaming is one thing and being realistic is another. We aren't talking consumer GPUs here, if AMD manages its performance targets , price will follow, especially in server/HPC grade chips where brand preference doesn't apply much.

how is making it cost efficient as vishera "unrealistic"? the fact that vishera, who's 3generations behind is much more cost efficient is quite disappointing.
its already hard that you're paying more for less performance, but making it dramatically cost inefficient isn't gonna make it better.

plus, theres much more given impact in impressing through perf/$, wouldn't it be impressive if AMD suddenly releases a CPU that matches an i7 for only $200?
but if it was priced $300 most people would just shrug at it, unless AMD had unique features that intel doesn't i very much doubt they'd pick it over intel.
look at GTX970, when it first came out, it slaughtered the entire GPU market because of its brutally low price-point yet performs ridiculously well, GTX970 was all the rage back then.

at least AMD's GPUs are fairly getting better in perf/$ even at launch price, HD6970 < HD7970 < R9 290X.
even intel, albeit a bit crooked with minimal IPC gain, still maintains the same price-point for their given K series.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 10:37am
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