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[Guru3D] AMD Readies 14nm Zen - up-to 40 percent faster IPC performance - Page 26

post #251 of 334
The thing ... is that Zen will compete with Cannonlake in 2016, not Skylake(2015).
post #252 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBlade6 View Post

The thing ... is that Zen will compete with Cannonlake in 2016, not Skylake(2015).

oh now its on-par with cannonlake... i think i just lost it.
post #253 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

how is making it cost efficient as vishera "unrealistic"? the fact that vishera, who's 3generations behind is much more cost efficient is quite disappointing.
its already hard that you're paying more for less performance, but making it dramatically cost inefficient isn't gonna make it better.

plus, theres much more given impact in impressing through perf/$, wouldn't it be impressive if AMD suddenly releases a CPU that matches an i7 for only $200?
but if it was priced $300 most people would just shrug at it, unless AMD had unique features that intel doesn't i very much doubt they'd pick it over intel.
look at GTX970, when it first came out, it slaughtered the entire GPU market because of its brutally low price-point yet performs ridiculously well, GTX970 was all the rage back then.

at least AMD's GPUs are fairly getting better in perf/$ even at launch price, HD6970 < HD7970 < R9 290X.
even intel, albeit a bit crooked with minimal IPC gain, still maintains the same price-point for their given K series.

We are running in circles. Everything about the whole point you raise ("cost efficiency") is arbitrary. For one last time. In 16-18 months , vishera FX octocores will be replaced. If AMD hits their target with their new stuff, any 4C/8T Zen chip will be a good upgrade vs the octocore both in ST (especially) and MT workloads and more efficient. It will also be much faster in MT than whatever plain mainstream quad intel has out around that time, priced between 170-250. This will be vishera's replacement, If you want a CPU around the 150-200 mark , expect something like that. Their 6C/12T unit will be higher positioned and higher priced. 200 - 300 was the price for thubans back in the day, and they were going up against i7 9x0 chips while being monolithic (no SMT). Even If Zen trails Skylake-E as bad as Ph II trailed Nehalem in ST, SMT alone guarantees it will be way more competitive as a whole and thus priced higher. This is how AMD always did business, If their design allows for a higher price point, they will claim it.
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post #254 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

oh now its on-par with cannonlake... i think i just lost it.

He didn't say that.

Zen and Cannonlake are launching in the same time frame in 2016.

Zen will be forced to compete with Intel's 7000 series.
post #255 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

We are running in circles. Everything about the whole point you raise ("cost efficiency") is arbitrary. For one last time. In 16-18 months , vishera FX octocores will be replaced. If AMD hits their target with their new stuff, any 4C/8T Zen chip will be a good upgrade vs the octocore both in ST (especially) and MT workloads and more efficient. It will also be much faster in MT than whatever plain mainstream quad intel has out around that time, priced between 170-250. This will be vishera's replacement, If you want a CPU around the 150-200 mark , expect something like that. Their 6C/12T unit will be higher positioned and higher priced. 200 - 300 was the price for thubans back in the day, and they were going up against i7 9x0 chips while being monolithic (no SMT). Even If Zen trails Skylake-E as bad as Ph II trailed Nehalem in ST, SMT alone guarantees it will be way more competitive as a whole and thus priced higher. This is how AMD always did business, If their design allows for a higher price point, they will claim it.

i can't wrap around my head as to how optimistic you are.
1) theres no demonstration as to how well they can handle SMT, but doubtfully better than intel's hyperthreading.
2) saying 40% IPC boost AMD claims is a fact, when all of their previous statements fell short.
3) having performance parity warrants a high price, worse perf/$ even, now this is subjective but its the wrong approach.
4) worse off, budget starting price tag of $150 as you guys even place it, i can't even imagine the lower end market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daious View Post

He didn't say that.

Zen and Cannonlake are launching in the same time frame in 2016.

Zen will be forced to compete with Intel's 7000 series.

yeah i know, i just can't get it, why are people so overly optimistic.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 11:58am
post #256 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i can't wrap around my head as to how optimistic you are.

You also can't read it seems biggrin.gif. Which part of IF AMD meets their target don't you get? This discussion only exists because we know Zen is a wide, "haswell class" (based on FPU and execution units) core, we know AMD claims 40% ipc over whatever EX brings (which judging by the design is nothing extraordinary) plus we know it uses SMT. Hyperthreading has been solid for generations and intel aren't the only ones using it,you know. (In a sense BD family FPU was a SMT design, being able to divide itself into 2 128bit parts). One of the main reasons it failed with P4 was that Win XP was ill equipped to use it. We have gone a long way since then.If anything, windows will be more friendly to an AMD core that mimics intel rather than some unique design of their own (win 7 need BD specific patches in order not to saturate certain modules while leaving others intact, heavily penaizing the CPU in the process). All these aren't optimism, just cold calculations. Optimism would be AMD matching haswell straight away and achieving parity with Cannonlake with Zen+ in 2017 or early 2018. I just can't see this happening.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 5/20/15 at 12:17pm
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post #257 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

yeah i know, i just can't get it, why are people so overly optimistic.

It's just the correct word for it. Like, when you compete in a Marathon and fall down and can't get up after 20km, "I competed in the NYC 2014 Marathon" is still a correct sentence. tongue.gif
post #258 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

You also can't read it seems biggrin.gif. Which part of IF AMD meets their target don't you get? This discussion only exists because we know Zen is a wide, "haswell class" (based on FPU and execution units) core, we know AMD claims 40% ipc over whatever EX brings (which judging by the design is nothing extraordinary) plus we know it uses SMT. Hyperthreading has been solid for generations and intel aren't the only ones using it,you know. (In a sense BD family FPU was a SMT design, being able to divide itself into 2 128bit parts). One of the main reasons it failed with P4 was that Win XP was ill equipped to use it. We have gone a long way since then.If anything, windows will be more friendly to an AMD core that mimics intel rather than some unique design of their own (win 7 need BD specific patches in order not to saturate certain modules while leaving others intact, heavily penaizing the CPU in the process). All these aren't optimism, just cold calculations. Optimism would be AMD matching haswell straight away and achieving parity with Cannonlake with Zen+ in 2017 or early 2018. I just can't see this happening.

first off, which part of "i can't wrap around my head as to how optimistic you are." don't you understand? from what i can see you're pulling assumptions from thin air.
and 2nd off, it's AMD's first time taking up SMT, saying that it could be as good as intel's is beyond optimism, AMD has zero experience in using it as far as we know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

It's just the correct word for it. Like, when you compete in a Marathon and fall down and can't get up after 20km, "I competed in the NYC 2014 Marathon" is still a correct sentence. tongue.gif
lol, more like "I ran 2nd place on the NYC 2014 marathon" if not 1st, these guys want AMD to actually get Zen to go toe-to-toe with Haswell you know.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 5:27pm
post #259 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMack70 View Post

The promises of 50% improvements for Bulldozer were widespread and not confined to a single source... or do all AMD fanboys have very short memories?
Why any of you choose to believe AMD's PR given that more or less this exact same marketing line was passed around with Bulldozer is beyond my comprehension. Don't buy the hype, and then perhaps you'll be able to appreciate the eventual product AMD releases.thumb.gif

you know, i've been wondering where had those +50% slides went to, i tried searching for them but they seemed to have vanished, the same with the +45% IPC steamroller over bulldozer.
Edited by epic1337 - 5/20/15 at 9:28pm
post #260 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

you know, i've been wondering where had those +50% slides went to, i tried searching for them but they seemed to have vanished, the same with the +45% IPC steamroller over bulldozer.

Found one where Bulldozer was alleged to be +50% over a i7-950...



And another claiming that "2010 is projected to be the beginning of unprecedented leaps in server performance-per-watt for AMD", showing wholly unrealistic numbers for their then-upcoming Magny-Cours and Interlagos (aka Bulldozer) server CPUs...

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