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[PCP] NVIDIA Under Attack Again for GameWorks in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Page 13

post #121 of 480
Why is it Nvidia's problem if AMD's cards can't run games as well?
post #122 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Why is it Nvidia's problem if AMD's cards can't run games as well?

well, they can run games as well as nvidia.

it's just that gameworks shillware is stopping them from doing so.

take a look at any other AAA game released.

then compare to gameworks games.

it's a pretty big difference.
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post #123 of 480
You know GTA V. That's the perfect example how developers should implement AMD/Nvidia features. The game has Nvidia and AMD Shadows. Problem is if you add too many features from both camps you make the game more complicated and you add dev time for a game what is only going to sell 1/3 of potential buys.
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post #124 of 480
The concept of Gameworks sounds good on the surface but once you dig down you realize it is just bad for gamers. The concept is that NVidia will provide ready made function calls for various features. This allows the developers to focus on other areas since these specific tasks do not need to be programed, just a hook put in place.

Now no one that is reasonable expects NVidia to give optimizations for AMD based products and the theory is that these function calls can be turned off, or will automatically turn off if an NVidia card is not detected. This would be reasonable and acceptable, this is not what is done.

Instead of these functions defaulting back to a more basic code, one not optimized for NVidia they instead usually drop into a broken form of the basic code that is poorly written and not optimized at all. Now this does not break the game function but what it does do is not just remove the NVidia based optimization but actually SLOWS the AMD use of the specific function.

Nvidia will argue that the performance issues are driver based because drivers fix the issue. The reason drivers fix the issue is AMD develops a work around for the specific poorly written code to allow it to run as it should have in the first place. AMD is not allowed access BTW to this, even none optimized code, so instead of a simple fix by looking at the code the development of the fix requires a long war around approach.

Notice what I am saying, NVidia with it's implementation is not just keeping AMD from seeing it's proprietary code, which is as it should be, but also the functions so called open code. Why would they need to keep AMD from access the code that is not tied to the optimization of their hardware?

Lets also cover another aspect of this. NVidia claims no payment is given to devs to use Gameworks, again literally true but not technically true. The time saved to produce the needed code for the game cuts development cost and thus saves the company money, in effect the same as directly playing them. Further the company receives extra publicity for their product again a huge value and is worth being considered pay.

At no point is Gameworks designed to make things better for gamers. It is a marketing tool that attacks the other side why creating an artificial advantage for NVidia. NVidia has a spin machine that is worth of either political party in it's ability to hurt gamers while seeming to be helping them.
post #125 of 480
GameWorks is not just for advantages against AMD. It's a library of effect to differentiate PC from Consoles and since Nvidia hold most of PC market they are the leaders of PC gaming.
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post #126 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post


Did Mantle ever prevent Nvidia from optimizing? Did it ever harm them at all?

Nope, nor did Nvidia. Here's a Gameworks title where AMD performed like it should;



Here's one with Physx;



The issue is on AMD's own side as being proven by the tessellation benchmark and the fact that AMD's DX11 is in terms of CPU performance horribly worse;


Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyris View Post

How is that not a blackbox? They are not some evil demonic being but it is what it is.

By your logic Mantle is then a blackbox too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyris View Post

Its not that nvidia is gimping AMD within the code, the shaders in gameworks titles are fully optimized to NVIDIA GPU and AMD is NOT allowed to even SEE THEM. what becomes something simple AMD could have done, becomes a hike to mt. Everest thanks to them. Thats pretty much it.

Devs still optimize for both sides, but because of GW code lockdown it is very limited for AMD.

Plenty of gameworks benchmarks out there AMD did better so your point is invalid.
post #127 of 480
Did you really just post an AC:Unity benchmark as an example of a well optimized game?.....eh-smiley.gif
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post #128 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

Nope, nor did Nvidia. Here's a Gameworks title where AMD performed like it should;



Here's one with Physx;



The issue is on AMD's own side as being proven by the tessellation benchmark and the fact that AMD's DX11 is in terms of CPU performance horribly worse;


By your logic Mantle is then a blackbox too.
Plenty of gameworks benchmarks out there AMD did better so your point is invalid.

using assassins creed unity as a milestone of performance...amazing

metro last light...has physx... they probably turned it off to level the playing field...

2/10

rolleyes.gif

ninja'd by ganf

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post #129 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

This is based on utter and complete misinformation. pCARS does NOT use GPU PhysX on Nvidia cards at all.

It's all CPU PhysX for everyone. The reason AMD gets a boost on win10 is because their win7/8 DX11 CPU overhead is absolutely terrible compared to Nvidia's.

You should go make a post there (pm to me if you do) and educate people if that's the case. CPU overhead issues are still pretty underground because they're not talked about on more public sites very much, even a niche on OCN (many people don't have any idea that it's even different between brands)
Edited by Cyro999 - 5/17/15 at 8:30pm
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post #130 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage View Post

I have an AMD card but i don't think there's anything wrong with what nvidia is doing..... you can turn it off.

you can't in Project Cars. the whole game was built with and around Nvidia Gameworks, with the developers knowing it wont run as good on AMD cards.

so to all, please direct your hate once again to lazy developer, as to be expected from an early access game.
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