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[PCP] NVIDIA Under Attack Again for GameWorks in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Page 26

post #251 of 480
http://gfycat.com/DigitalGloomyFrenchbulldog

Brb going back to camp green
post #252 of 480
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

AMD fans should simply demand that AMD also create exclusive and/or proprietary features and get devs to implement them. I'm very serious here. People purely see gameworks, physx, G-sync as an advantage. AMD's wasting money on stuff like HBM, (the failed) Skybridge project, K12, Never Settle bundles, etc. People want exclusive, unique features that are noticeable. They want stuff that the other side can't give. The reason why people choose Nvidia is exactly because they bring unique features to the table. PhysX is one such example. They were also first with G-sync, and even people who couldn't afford to buy a G-sync monitor were excited for it. Freesync was late, simply because it didn't beat Gsync to the launch. They were also first to offer a first party software suite, GeForce Experience or whatever, with GPU recording. Again, Raptr and GameDVR were late, because they didn't beat Nvidia to the punch. That said, reproducing technologies is still good, since it reduces the amount of unique features that Nvidia has, and reduces the incentive to go with Nvidia. But the fact remains, AMD just doesn't have as many unique technologies as Nvidia. Why is AMD seen as the second best, the budget brand? It's not because of their price. First, AMD is typically in second place, quite literally. As mentioned before, Nvidia was first with G-sync, GE, Gameworks, Physx, FLEX, CUDA, etc. They are consistently the technology leader, this matters for the following reason. Second, at any given time, Nvidia is going to have more unique features because they typically beat AMD to the punch. There are exceptions like GDDR5 and HBM, but Nvidia usually get it the next generation and people forget about it when one side loses its uniqueness. Third, even when AMD has their own technologies they rarely stay exclusive. TressFX? Worked fine on Nvidia cards after some patches. It should have been exclusive to AMD cards. Mantle was given to Khronos as well, but that was originally designed by Johan of EA DICE, so I'm not sure if I can really say AMD was responsible for giving it away. Plus it maintained exclusivity as Mantle, even if it was used to create Vulkan.

I'll be honest. Open is stupid, it's not a selling point. Maybe to the Stallman worshippers on /g/, but not to the mass consumers. Nvidia got it right with PhysX and G-sync and Shadowplay. And they got it right with GameWorks. The concerns about GameWorks hurting AMD performance isn't going to make consumers oppose Nvidia, it's going to make them buy Nvidia to put their concerns to rest.

There is no solution to it. If AMD doesn't want to keep hemorrhaging marketshare they need to do the same thing as Nvidia. So instead of complaining on OCN, AMD fans should contact AMD and demand that AMD come up with their own PhysX, GameWorks, FLEX, etc. and make it exclusive to AMD. How does AMD changes it image? Neutralize Nvidia's uniqueness by reproducing their technologies, then create AMD unique features and keep creating them to stay ahead of Nvidia. AMD is going to go bankrupt dawdling like this.


Are you serious?

Then this will turn pc gaming into consoles, i.e. exclusives and certain games are unable to run on certain hardware
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post #253 of 480
Can someone explain to me why people think it's reasonable that everyone who makes something gaming related should be required to give it away to their competitors for free?
post #254 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerkageTurk View Post

Problem here is developers are not even allowed to optimise code for gameworks so, it does not matter if cpu phsyx is used or vice versa.


If a game developer is not allowed to optimise, how can amd?

It's like amd has another layer which is causing it to bottleneck because of gameworks.

What the hell are you talking about?

Nvidia said numerous times that if a developer license gameworks and uses it for its games, nvidia will gladly come and help the developer to optimise himself for the it. They will provide code, they will change code, they will do anything in their power to make the developer happy. This is the reason why gameworks is actually being used.

Did AMD help Nvidia to optimize tomb raider performance the TressFX for nvidia GPUs? No they didn't. Nvidia had to work really hard with the developer (who was reluctant to help because of agreements with AMD). And AMD PR were laughing and calling out on Nvidia that their GPUs are bad at hair visualisation (AMD claimed TressFX was open for everything, but in the end the only provided a few closed binaries which run horrible on any GPU but AMD's).

This is only the full reverse. Except instead, Nvidia doesn't say anything about AMD but on their own products, and AMD are crying about instead of doing the work they should.

In the end of the day, instead of crying, AMD should pull their big boys pants up and get to work. Crying will not help them in sales.
They tried it before with watch dogs, they cried, there were tons of articles, and behold what happens, they were able to get performance done without getting gameworks code or any help from Nvidia. Wasn't that something incredible.

Gameworks allows a developer to adds things that AMD doesn't have. And if AMD doesn't have them, it has to run on CPU and so the performance is reduced.
Not activating said things, will make the game work as normal. Just not as cool. AMD are doing this on other games, but we don't hear nvidia cry about it, and I don't see a reason why any of them should (unless those are things that one side just can't bring to the table).
Edited by Defoler - 5/18/15 at 1:44pm
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post #255 of 480
TressFX was open standard thus nVidia can or any developer can optimise certain features, however, same could not be said about gameworks.
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post #256 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

but in the end the only provided a few closed binaries which run horrible on any GPU but AMD's).

Isnt that what Nvidia said they do? We only work on binaries blah blah
post #257 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerkageTurk View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Are you serious?

Then this will turn pc gaming into consoles, i.e. exclusives and certain games are unable to run on certain hardware

That's PC gaming's future anyway. AMD continues to lose marketshare and money. Either you can have one "console", Nvidia, on the market or you can have two. There is no other alternative.
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post #258 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerkageTurk View Post

TressFX was open standard thus nVidia can or any developer can optimise certain features, however, same could not be said about gameworks.

AMD can utilize and run GameWorks just fine, they just have to optimize their drivers for it without the help of NVIDIA. So it'll probably take them awhile to get performance up in the game, which was the same case with TressFX/Tomb Raider + NVIDIA if I remember right.
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post #259 of 480
Quote:
As a result of the backlash, Nvidia changed its policy to allow game developers access to the source code as of mid April of last year. However according to AMD, this did not alter the situation, as game developers engaged in the Nvidia GameWorks program were still not allowed to work with AMD to optimize the code for their hardware. Something which Nvidia initially denied but later Nvidia’s Tom Petersen and Rev Lebaradian admitted. Witcher 3 developers, CD Projekt Red, reaffirmed this again two days ago.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-responds-witcher-3-gameworks-controversy/#ixzz3aWdDD69y

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-responds-witcher-3-gameworks-controversy/
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post #260 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

I know. frown.gif
I'm trying to say, it is a tangent at this point whatever evaluation they are making. The performance delivers the message across, words are like sand dunes in the wind.

Word., it's like thinking outside the box, it's a new paradigm. It is what it is, brother!, When we get firing on all cylinders the synergy will blow peoples minds.



Seriously though, I said earlier this whole fiasco has made me decide to go Nvidia when I upgrade. In actuality I change my mind, there will be no more upgrade, basically at this point I am not gonna play their game, I am pulling a konami. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF NVIDIA. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PC GAMING. I am done, no more upgrades, just FFFF it. This whole ordeal is ridiculous and frickin anti consumer in the extreme, I can find another hobby, FFF them all.
Edited by the9quad - 5/18/15 at 1:57pm
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