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[PCP] NVIDIA Under Attack Again for GameWorks in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Page 40

post #391 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I would love to jump on AMDs side, they are currently the underdog. I am super excited to see Zen CPU architecture and HBM. Unfortunately AMD have two talking heads which lie. They lie very loudly too. Even if they were marginally right, they lost the entire moral ground by over-embellishing the facts and lying about what's going on. Roy Taylor calls GameWorks "Evil". Really? Evil? You know what's Evil? What the Nazis did at concentration camps.

Richard Huddy and Roy Taylor, these two men make more people hate AMD then anything AMD has done in the past. AMD fans don't even realize this half the time. When you are losing in a GPU race, albeit possibly temporarily, you suck it up, and pat your competitor on the back saying good race. That's called sportsmanship. Not only are they not doing it, they out right lie to spin the public's opinion, and no offense to the internet, but the internet loves to hate things. It's just one negative herd mind. This week it's anti-nVidia and anti-CDProjektRed, last week it's anti-SM Studios, the week before last Gabe Newell was the devil. I can find quotes of how the only last "true" PC developer is CDPR dated April 2015.

I think AMD should start making money, stay competitive, and keep the gloves up. I think Roy and Richard shouldn't be allowed to talk on behalf of the company the way they do, it's unprofessional but that's my opinion. The internet loves them for that negative spin. If they had evidence of their claims, then AMD would have sued nVidia for anti-trust.

The article from Forbes is an example of people finally noticing the boy crying wolf.

For the record despite not really agreeing with certain media spinning, Roy Taylor isn't a bad person, in fact he's quite a nice bloke and have had the pleasure of speaking to him in the past. He is passionate about gaming as much as any of us, but that's as far as I'll go to defend the GW stance
Edited by Silent Scone - 5/22/15 at 7:54am
post #392 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Most people are spitting venomous acid at the entire GameWorks project, at the same time providing no real solutions for what GameWorks is attempting to alleviate and demanding its removal.

nVidia has a right to do what they are doing, it's their IP. Gamers doing the most complaining are just being entitled babies, however, even a broken a clock is right two times a day.

They are right that nVidia is being anti-competitive, but not by creating GameWorks.

It is by leveraging their 75~85% claim to market share and creating a paywall for developers to optimize for the remaining 15~25%. They are incentivizing publishers NOT to buy the source code, when it comes pre-optimized (again arguably optimized) for that 75~85% of your user base already!?

From a business sense, it is a slam dunk, but it leaves little room for developers, whose publishers made a business decision to not pay for GameWorks source.

That's truly the problem. GameWorks libraries are an awesome step forward in adding great effects with ease, nVidia's licensing model has created an anti-competitive nature by utilizing their market share and ruthlessness of publishers' desires to cut costs and effective spending.

What's the real solution? Providing source code to any publisher/developer who has a license for standard GameWorks, at no additional cost.
Well I jump in anywhere, I hear misinformation.

So again, you keep telling us GameWorks is a proprietary "system", it isn't. It is proprietary software, optimized for a hardware platform, but capable of running on the competitors hardware.

You keep saying all of this proprietary system stuff needs to go, starting with nVidia of course, while claiming you are being unbiased, and you truly are not.

You then make unsubstantiated claims about some proprietary system "stuff" without any backing, knowledgeable sources, and I simply asked, as I do again: which successful business does not use proprietary software or systems?

The point of the question is the answer is: zero. It's impossible because such a business could not exist today without using proprietary systems whether its an accounting software, Exchange environment, even RHEL is proprietary.

You are demanding nVidia not to use a proprietary model of business is asking them to stop being a modern day business. You just don't realize what you are saying which is why I was trying to get you to see that.

And you think that Nvidia honest has no intention of gradually nudging AMD's performance down after watching them attempt it already, nor will they hedge their bets by gimping AAA titles if AMD's 3xx cards turn out to be competitive against their current lineup?

The same company that's gimping their 900m series cards as we speak for a second time?

Come on.... As I said, I'm not just ragging Nvidia for this. AMD is pulling this crap too and I can't stand it. When they release LiquidVR and all games for the Oculus have to run that API or have crap for optimization, and Nvidia's SLI doesn't scale appropriately for it, I don't want to hear a single complaint out of you. You better be in here swearing that nothing underhanded is happening and that AMD is just doing what any company should do with their proprietary software.

I will probably be on AMD GPUs by then.

Do I believe nVidia is sabotaging AMD?
No, because I practice innocence until proven guilty. Not one person has shown any proof of it. Heck Witcher 3 is running better on R9 290X than Kepler is some cases. Every past cause for alarm has been rectified by a game patch, nVidia driver, or AMD driver. For all of this fuss over GameWorks being included, these launch issues have been going on figuratively forever. Now that we have nVidia tripping up on it's own drivers for a change it's good for nVidia fanboys to see that nVidia makes mistakes too. I can remember a time where AMD tripped up over it's own feet without any help from anyone else, then they took ownership and promised to look at the issue. Bugs happen, sometimes a game performs terrible on your stuff, you take ownership, and get it fixed. For example, I am still waiting to use CrossfireX in Dying Light with Anti-Aliasing. Dragon Age Inquisition still has major gamma issues for me, Alien Isolation has abnormal screen tearing, even when practically standing still in CFX. I am stuck with a Devil 13 also, where I can't disable CrossfireX as the option has been removed from the driver's since Omega. On those issues, I hold AMD and the developer responsible. On my 780 Ti Keplers not working well in Witcher 3 or Project Cars, I expect that nVidia and the developer get it fixed.

Do I believe nVidia is manipulating the market through "legal" business practices?
Yes, I discussed this in my past posts. They know Publisher's don't have extra money to waste on source code for GameWorks when it "works" out of the box for 75~85% of the market that nVidia currently owns.

There are hardware differences between AMD and nVidia. A fact that people over look:
Kepler's tessellation performance trumps the R9 290x significantly.
Maxwell's tessellation performance trumps the Kepler significantly.

Witcher 3 patch 1.03 supposedly improves performance across the board. nVidia are investigating why Kepler suddenly took a nose dive in a "few" (2 that we know of) titles.

Now everybody has forgotten that:
A.) Launch day is the worst day to own a game.
B.) Drivers at launch are usually the worst drivers to have for the game, these gameready drivers being an exception, but of the "two" one is broken for everything else like Google Chrome.

Then the last point, that everyone seems to forgotten about:
A.) Maxwell launch drivers show 780 Ti neck and neck with GTX 980.
B.) The performance, should, only go up from launch thanks to driver maturity. The GTX 980 should over take the 780 Ti.

Despite being 33% less cores than the 780 Ti, each Core is 40% more powerful. In addition to 3x times the tessellation performance.

Furthermore, these next generation console ports, have been awful. Terribad. Everyone now blames nVidia? The only reason is they want to. It's called confirmation bias, or selection bias. We have psychological shortcuts to quickly accept the facts that we want to believe. I don't believe really anything anymore until I see it from 3 or more independent sources.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/22/15 at 8:04am
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post #393 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I will probably be on AMD GPUs by then.

Do I believe nVidia is sabotaging AMD?
No, because I practice innocence until proven guilty. Not one person has shown any proof of it. Heck Witcher 3 is running better on R9 290X than Kepler is some cases. Every cause for alarm has been rectified by a game patch, nVidia driver, or AMD driver. For all of this fuss over GameWorks being included. Now that we have nVidia tripping up on it's own drivers for a change, I can remember where AMD tripped up over it's own feet without any help from anyone else. It happens.

Do I believe nVidia is manipulating the market through "legal" business practices?
Yes, I discussed this in my past posts. They know Publisher's don't have extra money to waste on source code for GameWorks when it "works" out of the box for 75~85% of the market that nVidia currently owns.

There are hardware differences between AMD and nVidia. A fact that people over look:
Kepler's tessellation performance trumps the R9 290x significantly.
Maxwell's tessellation performance trumps the Kepler significantly.

Witcher 3 patch 1.03 supposedly improves performance across the board. nVidia are investigating why Kepler suddenly took a nose dive in a "few" (2 that we know of) titles.

Now everybody has forgotten that:
A.) Launch day is the worst day to own a game.
B.) Drivers at launch are usually the worst drivers to have for the game, these gameready drivers being an exception, but of the "two" one is broken for everything else like Google Chrome.

Then the last point, that everyone seems to forgotten about:
A.) Maxwell launch drivers show 780 Ti neck and neck with GTX 980.
B.) The performance, should, only go up from launch thanks to driver maturity. The GTX 980 should over take the 780 Ti.

Despite being 33% less cores than the 780 Ti, each Core is 40% more powerful. In addition to 3x times the tessellation performance.

Furthermore, these next generation console ports, have been awful. Terribad. Everyone now blames nVidia? The only reason is they want to. It's called confirmation bias, or selection bias. We have psychological shortcuts to quickly accept the facts that we want to believe. I don't believe really anything anymore until I see it from 3 or more independent sources.

Does everything being corrected through patching or tweaking remedy the fact that review sites have already plastered the internet with AMD getting stomped in performance though? Are those pages going to be corrected, are the reviewers going to apply the tweaks when benching, and will they specifically state the cause of the difference in performance and how to correct it?

Nope. Nvidia marketing wins again. Just because it can be fixed doesn't mean it wasn't a douchey move. People can complain about AMD's marketing all they want, how AMD is slinging mud at Nvidia with no basis, etc... At least you know straight up when AMD is lying. 99% of people will never catch on to how Nvidia manipulated the launch reviews to have them reflect poorly on AMD.
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post #394 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I will probably be on AMD GPUs by then.

Do I believe nVidia is sabotaging AMD?
No, because I practice innocence until proven guilty. Not one person has shown any proof of it. Heck Witcher 3 is running better on R9 290X than Kepler is some cases. Every past cause for alarm has been rectified by a game patch, nVidia driver, or AMD driver. For all of this fuss over GameWorks being included, these launch issues have been going on figuratively forever. Now that we have nVidia tripping up on it's own drivers for a change it's good for nVidia fanboys to see that nVidia makes mistakes too. I can remember a time where AMD tripped up over it's own feet without any help from anyone else, then they took ownership and promised to look at the issue. Bugs happen, sometimes a game performs terrible on your stuff, you take ownership, and get it fixed. For example, I am still waiting to use CrossfireX in Dying Light with Anti-Aliasing. Dragon Age Inquisition still has major gamma issues for me, Alien Isolation has abnormal screen tearing, even when practically standing still in CFX. I am stuck with a Devil 13 also, where I can't disable CrossfireX as the option has been removed from the driver's since Omega. On those issues, I hold AMD and the developer responsible. On my 780 Ti Keplers not working well in Witcher 3 or Project Cars, I expect that nVidia and the developer get it fixed.

Do I believe nVidia is manipulating the market through "legal" business practices?
Yes, I discussed this in my past posts. They know Publisher's don't have extra money to waste on source code for GameWorks when it "works" out of the box for 75~85% of the market that nVidia currently owns.

There are hardware differences between AMD and nVidia. A fact that people over look:
Kepler's tessellation performance trumps the R9 290x significantly.
Maxwell's tessellation performance trumps the Kepler significantly.

Witcher 3 patch 1.03 supposedly improves performance across the board. nVidia are investigating why Kepler suddenly took a nose dive in a "few" (2 that we know of) titles.

Now everybody has forgotten that:
A.) Launch day is the worst day to own a game.
B.) Drivers at launch are usually the worst drivers to have for the game, these gameready drivers being an exception, but of the "two" one is broken for everything else like Google Chrome.

Then the last point, that everyone seems to forgotten about:
A.) Maxwell launch drivers show 780 Ti neck and neck with GTX 980.
B.) The performance, should, only go up from launch thanks to driver maturity. The GTX 980 should over take the 780 Ti.

Despite being 33% less cores than the 780 Ti, each Core is 40% more powerful. In addition to 3x times the tessellation performance.

Furthermore, these next generation console ports, have been awful. Terribad. Everyone now blames nVidia? The only reason is they want to. It's called confirmation bias, or selection bias. We have psychological shortcuts to quickly accept the facts that we want to believe. I don't believe really anything anymore until I see it from 3 or more independent sources.

Something people tend to forget. Won't get into graph wars as it's always a nasty slope but if you compare Hawaii performance from launch till now there is a great deal of improvement. If you couple these improvements with the fact that NVIDIA may well have neglected Kepler in the last few builds, I don't think there's going to be any shoddy business practices beneath the surface. I think that the very idea of crippling your own hardware is obscene, but perhaps that's why the tinfoil hats love the idea of it. For the record that wasn't a bait for someone to mention the 970 as I don't believe an already neutered product being more neutered than you initially thought is means for a comparison.
Edited by Silent Scone - 5/22/15 at 8:21am
post #395 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I will probably be on AMD GPUs by then.

Do I believe nVidia is sabotaging AMD?
No, because I practice innocence until proven guilty. Not one person has shown any proof of it. Heck Witcher 3 is running better on R9 290X than Kepler is some cases. Every cause for alarm has been rectified by a game patch, nVidia driver, or AMD driver. For all of this fuss over GameWorks being included. Now that we have nVidia tripping up on it's own drivers for a change, I can remember where AMD tripped up over it's own feet without any help from anyone else. It happens.

Do I believe nVidia is manipulating the market through "legal" business practices?
Yes, I discussed this in my past posts. They know Publisher's don't have extra money to waste on source code for GameWorks when it "works" out of the box for 75~85% of the market that nVidia currently owns.

There are hardware differences between AMD and nVidia. A fact that people over look:
Kepler's tessellation performance trumps the R9 290x significantly.
Maxwell's tessellation performance trumps the Kepler significantly.

Witcher 3 patch 1.03 supposedly improves performance across the board. nVidia are investigating why Kepler suddenly took a nose dive in a "few" (2 that we know of) titles.

Now everybody has forgotten that:
A.) Launch day is the worst day to own a game.
B.) Drivers at launch are usually the worst drivers to have for the game, these gameready drivers being an exception, but of the "two" one is broken for everything else like Google Chrome.

Then the last point, that everyone seems to forgotten about:
A.) Maxwell launch drivers show 780 Ti neck and neck with GTX 980.
B.) The performance, should, only go up from launch thanks to driver maturity. The GTX 980 should over take the 780 Ti.

Despite being 33% less cores than the 780 Ti, each Core is 40% more powerful. In addition to 3x times the tessellation performance.

Furthermore, these next generation console ports, have been awful. Terribad. Everyone now blames nVidia? The only reason is they want to. It's called confirmation bias, or selection bias. We have psychological shortcuts to quickly accept the facts that we want to believe. I don't believe really anything anymore until I see it from 3 or more independent sources.

Does everything being corrected through patching or tweaking remedy the fact that review sites have already plastered the internet with AMD getting stomped in performance though? Are those pages going to be corrected, are the reviewers going to apply the tweaks when benching, and will they specifically state the cause of the difference in performance and how to correct it?

Nope. Nvidia marketing wins again. Just because it can be fixed doesn't mean it wasn't a douchey move. People can complain about AMD's marketing all they want, how AMD is slinging mud at Nvidia with no basis, etc... At least you know straight up when AMD is lying. 99% of people will never catch on to how Nvidia manipulated the launch reviews to have them reflect poorly on AMD.

Arguably, AMD, as a manufacturer of the video card, and sole author of the proprietary driver, hold responsibility for performance. That and the developer.

I can go out there and find quotes from developers on record stating AMD simply were not as available for support on AMD. These quotes go back before GameWorks was in use. I can't find one developer that went on record to say the same really about nVidia. The usual statement is that nVidia have been supportive throughout the entire development process.

When Tomb Raider came out and performed terribly on Geforce, nVidia made a statement that pointed out the performance was bad because they were only given access to the game for testing purposes a week before release, despite which they are now taking ownership of the problem and said they will ready a fix asap and keep communicating with developers.

That's what AMD needs to do if that's the case. Not lying, not fibbing, not spinning around in circles, not breathing fire, and not embellishing the truth. People love it when you take responsibility, nobody loves it when you throw a tantrum. Nobody loves tantrums. Shareholders respond to responsible management. If you look at the price of AMDs stock, which I have purchased in hopes of a gamble for future tech AMD 2016!!!!!, you will see what the professional world thinks of their responsible management. The opinion is not very high.

The problem isn't that nVidia are manipulating launch reviews, it's that AMD were not there. Most reviewers though go back and redo the review, retest numbers with newer drivers, or make a note need to explain that drivers were not available at launch. So what I am getting from you is we shouldn't do launch reviews because it paints AMD in a bad light? Maybe we wait to publish launch reviews until AMD finally release a driver? What are we on day 3 or 4 of the Witcher release, where are AMDs drivers for CFX users? Where is ProjectCars driver updates for CFX users? Even if the performance is not where they want in GameWorks, where are the drivers for the regular features?

nVidia is not responsible for AMDs release cycle. In addition to that, nVidia rushed the hell of their last driver, so much so, Google Chrome crashes it with Hardware Acceleration. While it should have been BETA not WHQL, it is still better than absolutely nothing which is where AMD have been lately. We went from December, arguably November (since the drivers were made Nov 21st) to the end of March with no driver updates at all. How is that anyone but AMDs responsibility? That meant every game from November to March that launched had no official AMD driver support. Even worse for Multi-GPU users like myself. That also means every review wasn't stellar for AMD. That's AMDs problem and not nVidias.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/22/15 at 8:32am
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post #396 of 480
I think the whole point is, Driver A is bad but driver B is worse than A.

The quality of pc gaming is really low in general. I dont blame nvidia and amd so much because they have to deal with a massive amount of code just to optimize the games. Devs should do this job. I hope dx12 to fix that at least on some degree
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post #397 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I think the whole point is, Driver A is bad but driver B is worse than A.

The quality of pc gaming is really low in general. I dont blame nvidia and amd so much because they have to deal with a massive amount of code just to optimize the games. Devs should do this job. I hope dx12 to fix that at least on some degree

I agree with that, we took a major downhill the moment those next generation consoles came out. One terrible port after another, broken launches, broken driver support. nVidia's drivers have taken substantial step down in reliability in the last year I have been using them, just look at the latest WHQL.

It makes me SadCain.
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post #398 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Arguably, AMD, as a manufacturer of the video card, and sole author of the proprietary driver, hold responsibility for performance. That and the developer.

I can go out there and find quotes from developers on record stating AMD simply were not as available for support on AMD. These quotes go back before GameWorks was in use. I can't find one developer that went on record to say the same really about nVidia. The usual statement is that nVidia have been supportive throughout the entire development process.

When Tomb Raider came out and performed terribly on Geforce, nVidia made a statement that pointed out the performance was bad because they were only given access to the game for testing purposes a week before release, despite which they are now taking ownership of the problem and said they will ready a fix asap and keep communicating with developers.

That's what AMD needs to do if that's the case. Not lying, not fibbing, not spinning around in circles, not breathing fire, and not embellishing the truth. People love it when you take responsibility, nobody loves it when you throw a tantrum. Nobody loves tantrums.

The problem isn't that nVidia are manipulating launch reviews, it's that AMD were not there. Most reviewers though go back and redo the review, retest numbers with newer drivers.

What are we on day 3 or 4 of the Witcher release, where are AMDs drivers for CFX users? Where is ProjectCars driver updates for CFX users? Even if the performance is not where they want in GameWorks, where are the drivers for the regular features?

nVidia is not responsible for AMDs release cycle. In addition to that, nVidia rushed the hell of their last driver, so much so, Google Chrome crashes it with Hardware Acceleration. While it should have been BETA not WHQL, it is still better than absolutely nothing which is where AMD have been lately. We went from December, arguably November (since the drivers were made Nov 21st) to the end of March with no driver updates at all. How is that anyone but AMDs responsibility. That meant every game from November to March that launched had no official AMD driver support. Even worse for Multi-GPU users like myself. That also means every review wasn't stellar for AMD. That's AMDs problem and not nVidias.

Just as many companies will state that Nvidia was not there for driver support. I've been over this, when a game let's it out that they're being supported by one or the other, doesn't matter who it is, as soon as that red or green splash screen gets added to the game's startup the opposing company stops supporting it. That childish crap needs to stop by both of them, or else developers need to stop collaborating with one over the other and alienating the competitor. Nvidia was just as accusing with stating that they hadn't received anything to work with on TR until the day before release saying that they had little contact with the developer in recent months because they were working so closely with AMD. However, when AMD does the same song and dance it's not acceptable. Go figure.

I don't care who pulls stupid stunts, lies, cheats, or takes away my options as the end user. I've had enough. Every manufacturer of any component in my PC or that I may choose to buy in the future is treated with the same scrutiny. It just so happens that the worst of them at the moment is AMD and Nvidia both, and none of us need to be bickering about "company A did this but company B did this, so company A is the better company.

They're both crap, stop using a competitor's screw-ups to justify the screw-ups on your side of the fence. Hold everyone accountable.
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post #399 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Arguably, AMD, as a manufacturer of the video card, and sole author of the proprietary driver, hold responsibility for performance. That and the developer.

I can go out there and find quotes from developers on record stating AMD simply were not as available for support on AMD. These quotes go back before GameWorks was in use. I can't find one developer that went on record to say the same really about nVidia. The usual statement is that nVidia have been supportive throughout the entire development process.

When Tomb Raider came out and performed terribly on Geforce, nVidia made a statement that pointed out the performance was bad because they were only given access to the game for testing purposes a week before release, despite which they are now taking ownership of the problem and said they will ready a fix asap and keep communicating with developers.

That's what AMD needs to do if that's the case. Not lying, not fibbing, not spinning around in circles, not breathing fire, and not embellishing the truth. People love it when you take responsibility, nobody loves it when you throw a tantrum. Nobody loves tantrums.

The problem isn't that nVidia are manipulating launch reviews, it's that AMD were not there. Most reviewers though go back and redo the review, retest numbers with newer drivers.

What are we on day 3 or 4 of the Witcher release, where are AMDs drivers for CFX users? Where is ProjectCars driver updates for CFX users? Even if the performance is not where they want in GameWorks, where are the drivers for the regular features?

nVidia is not responsible for AMDs release cycle. In addition to that, nVidia rushed the hell of their last driver, so much so, Google Chrome crashes it with Hardware Acceleration. While it should have been BETA not WHQL, it is still better than absolutely nothing which is where AMD have been lately. We went from December, arguably November (since the drivers were made Nov 21st) to the end of March with no driver updates at all. How is that anyone but AMDs responsibility. That meant every game from November to March that launched had no official AMD driver support. Even worse for Multi-GPU users like myself. That also means every review wasn't stellar for AMD. That's AMDs problem and not nVidias.

Just as many companies will state that Nvidia was not there for driver support.

This is news to me, do you have sources that nVidia was not supportive during development or didn't provide driver support to developers?
Quote:
I've been over this, when a game let's it out that they're being supported by one or the other, doesn't matter who it is, as soon as that red or green splash screen gets added to the game's startup the opposing company stops supporting it.

I would like proof of this also. Grand Theft Auto V is the golden child right now of having proprietary Red and Green tech under the hood.
Quote:
That childish crap needs to stop by both of them, or else developers need to stop collaborating with one over the other and alienating the competitor. Nvidia was just as accusing with stating that they hadn't received anything to work with on TR until the day before release saying that they had little contact with the developer in recent months because they were working so closely with AMD. However, when AMD does the same song and dance it's not acceptable. Go figure.

A.) Crystal Dynamics corroborated what they said.
B.) nVidia took responsibility for the problem, and fixed performance.

The only important thing to really take away from it was B. Talking just a little smack from both sides? Fine, taking responsibility? Mandatory.
Quote:
I don't care who pulls stupid stunts, lies, cheats, or takes away my options as the end user. I've had enough. Every manufacturer of any component in my PC or that I may choose to buy in the future is treated with the same scrutiny. It just so happens that the worst of them at the moment is AMD and Nvidia both, and none of us need to be bickering about "company A did this but company B did this, so company A is the better company.

I am all for the small jabs and spin, it's business after all. It's the responsibility and professionalism I have a problem with. The constant front page spin and lies coming from two individuals in particular I have beef with.
Quote:
They're both crap, stop using a competitor's screw-ups to justify the screw-ups on your side of the fence. Hold everyone accountable.

I don't think they are crap at all, I just think they have lost their ways a bit. I am trying to make the case focusing on AMD and you kind of lump them together. I am focusing on AMDs problems. I already pointed out what nVidia is doing wrong. Throwing them both together defeats the point of having a conversation on what's going wrong with AMD.

It's okay for AMD to have problems, it's not okay for them to not work on them. They are completely different than nVidia's problems and by not acknowledging them, you are doing AMD a disservice. Much like a child that needs to know boundaries, AMD need to be scolded for their misdeeds. Ignoring them is obviously not working on fixing the problem.

Just because I am scolding one of my children though, doesn't mean I don't love them, or I love my other child more. Just one child is acting up more so than the other and needs to get his behavior in check. The other child (nVidia) is not better or worse, or more loved. I have already clearly stated what I think nVidia's wrong doing actually is.
Edited by RagingCain - 5/22/15 at 8:55am
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post #400 of 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

This is news to me, do you have sources that nVidia was not supportive during development or didn't provide driver support to developers?
I would like proof of this also. Grand Theft Auto V is the golden child right now of having proprietary Red and Green tech under the hood.
A.) Crystal Dynamics corroborated what they said.
B.) nVidia took responsibility for the problem, and fixed performance.

The only important thing to really take away from it was B. Talking just a little smack from both sides? Fine, taking responsibility? Mandatory.
I am all for the small jabs and spin, it's business after all. It's the responsibility and professionalism I have a problem with. The constant front page spin and lies coming from two individuals in particular I have beef with.
I don't think they are crap at all, I just think they have lost their ways a bit. I am trying to make the case focusing on AMD and you kind of lump them together. I am focusing on AMDs problems. I already pointed out what nVidia is doing wrong. Throwing them both together defeats the point of having a conversation on what's going wrong with AMD.

It's okay for AMD to have problems, it's not okay for them to not work on them. They are completely different than nVidia's problems and by not acknowledging them, you are doing AMD a disservice. Much like a child that needs to know boundaries, AMD need to be scolded for their misdeeds. Ignoring them is obviously not working on fixing the problem.

Just because I am scolding one of my children though, doesn't mean I don't love them, or I love my other child more. Just one child is acting up more so than the other and needs to get his behavior in check. The other child (nVidia) is not better or worse, or more loved. I have already clearly stated what I think nVidia's wrong doing actually is.

There's no reason to focus on one or the other. As long as they can point fingers at each other and draw attention away from they they personally are screwing up they will never be held accountable for fixing their own problems. And I get back to my point. You were changing the topic. I was never talking about gameworks in particular, Nvidia in particular, or AMD in particular. The dGPU industry needs fixing as a whole. Scrutinize both companies individually and hold them accountable individually, don't compare them and say that one should be more like the other because that just encourages them to keep the blame train running in circles.

People have been trying to shrug off gameworks like it'll never be a problem. It already has been a problem and will become worse as time progresses. The problems may not be what AMD is crying about but they are obvious to anyone willing to judge for themselves. Freesync is a problem, G-sync is a problem, LiquidVR is a problem. You can't say "Well, there are problems with G-sync but that's okay because it's better than Freesync." That's bull. Demand that both of them be fixed.

If I live in a town with two restaurants and both of them serve warmed over dog poo, but one's dog poo is slightly better than the other, I don't eat at one and not the other. Both of them can stop sodomizing my tongue or they can both go out of business.
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