Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Ars] North Carolina sues FCC for right to block municipal broadband
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Ars] North Carolina sues FCC for right to block municipal broadband - Page 2

post #11 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Besides, this has nothing to do with "foreign nations, and among the several States, and with Indian Tribes". This is something that is within the bounds of ONE STATE.

If the internet never left the state, maybe. But it does. And it's used for commerce directly. Hence: interstate commerce.

There are times when the Commerce Clause gets stretched, but this isn't one of them. It really is as clear cut as it gets.
post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

There are times when the Commerce Clause gets stretched, but this isn't one of them. It really is as clear cut as it gets.

The Feds abusing their enumerated powers is never clear ... except when the Supreme Court spanks them for trying to overstep their bounds ... like they have been time and time again on this (and other) very issue (not the internet, but abusing the Commerce Clause).
post #13 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

The Commerce Clause is the most abused, and least defined thing in the Constitution. It can be abused to encompass anything, and the Supreme Court has basically struck down the Feds power under that in several cases.

Chief among them, United States v. Lopez.
Quote:
The Court reasoned that if Congress could regulate something so far removed from commerce, then it could regulate anything, and since the Constitution clearly creates Congress as a body with enumerated powers, this could not be so. Rehnquist concluded:

To uphold the Government's contentions here, we have to pile inference upon inference in a manner that would bid fair to convert congressional authority under the Commerce Clause to a general police power of the sort retained by the States. Admittedly, some of our prior cases have taken long steps down that road, giving great deference to congressional action. The broad language in these opinions has suggested the possibility of additional expansion, but we decline here to proceed any further. To do so would require us to conclude that the Constitution's enumeration of powers does not presuppose something not enumerated, and that there never will be a distinction between what is truly national and what is truly local. This we are unwilling to do.


Besides, this has nothing to do with "foreign nations, and among the several States, and with Indian Tribes". This is something that is within the bounds of ONE STATE.


To be fair SCOTUS has also reaffirmed the federal government's power in cases like Gonzales_v._Raich. the Federal goverment basically made the argument that anything related to interstate activity should also be with in their powers of regulation, even if it's an intrastate non-commercial activity.

Fed argument:
Quote:
The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown marijuana for medical purposes affects the interstate market of marijuana, and hence that the federal government may regulate—and prohibit—such consumption. This argument stems from the landmark New Deal case Wickard v. Filburn, which held that the government may regulate personal cultivation and consumption of crops, due to the aggregate effect of individual consumption on the government's legitimate statutory framework governing the interstate wheat market.

It's still heavily abused.

That having been said, the purpose of the broadband connection is to connect to (and expand) an interstate network. As far as abuses of the commerce clause goes...this is not one of them.
Langour
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.7ghz MSI p67a-gd80 MSI N580GTX Lightning @ 960mhz Mushkin Ridgeback 8gb (2 x 4gb) 
Hard DrivePowerCase
WD blue caviar 1T; Mushkin Castillo SSD 60gb Corsair 850HX Corsair 600T Special Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Langour
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.7ghz MSI p67a-gd80 MSI N580GTX Lightning @ 960mhz Mushkin Ridgeback 8gb (2 x 4gb) 
Hard DrivePowerCase
WD blue caviar 1T; Mushkin Castillo SSD 60gb Corsair 850HX Corsair 600T Special Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 60
IMO, any expansion of the Federal governments power beyond the EXPRESSED and CLEARLY defined powers listed to them by the Constitution is an abuse and shouldn't be allowed. If the Feds want to extend that power, then fine, all it takes is a 2/3rds majority in both houses and ratification by 3/4ths of the states. Otherwise, Congress should ONLY have these powers ...

Article I, Section 8:
Quote:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

As I said before, and as SCotUS has also said, by doing what they have attempted to abuse "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;" will ultimately mean, if left unchecked, they can do anything they want.

That is why even the ruling on the ACA (aka Obamacare), they made their ruling the way they did, even though the Administration said it wasn't a tax, the only way to make the ACA withstand the Constitutional Challenge was to say it was a tax, which Congress DOES have the power to do. If they tried to say it was part of the Commerce Clause, then the ACA would have been struck down.
post #15 of 60
That's fine. This is an enumerated power.
post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriWheel View Post

Ah NC, always trying to out-plunge the depths of your contemporaries, Arizona and Florida. Perhaps you should all break away, I mean physically separate yourselves from the continent and create the kind of society you REALLY want.

Are you referring to the state as a person, the almost 10 million residents, or the NC Attorney General Roy Cooper (D) in your passive aggressive statement? Did "NC" defecate in your Cheerios or something?
Edited by CasualCat - 5/21/15 at 11:09am
Office rig
(25 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz MSI Z170A Gaming M9ACK EVGA Titan X Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung Evo 840 1TB WD Black WD6401AALS WD Scorpio Blue WD3200BEVT Samsung SH-S223Q DVD-R/W 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Titan X block AlphaCool XT45 360 AlphaCool UT60 240 Swiftech MCP655-PWM 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK D5 x-res XSPC RayStorm Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 Series Waterblock Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 LT 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win10 BenQ BL3200PT (32" 2560x1440) Corsair K70 RGB Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseMouse PadOther
NZXT Switch 810 Corsair M65 CIG Aegis Goliath Epson Home Cinema 8350 w/92" 16:9 screen 
Other
HTC Vive 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 5 1600X Asrock X370 Professional Gaming Gigabyte Aorus 1080Ti Xtreme Edition G.Skill TridentZ 3200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
850 EVO 1TB WD 500GB Velociraptor Crucial MX300 1TB Corsair H105 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 10 4k TV Corsair AX860 Cooler Master HAF XB EVO 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech M510 Corsair Lapdog Pioneer SC-81 Epson Home Cinema 8350 
  hide details  
Reply
Office rig
(25 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz MSI Z170A Gaming M9ACK EVGA Titan X Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung Evo 840 1TB WD Black WD6401AALS WD Scorpio Blue WD3200BEVT Samsung SH-S223Q DVD-R/W 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Titan X block AlphaCool XT45 360 AlphaCool UT60 240 Swiftech MCP655-PWM 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK D5 x-res XSPC RayStorm Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 Series Waterblock Aquacomputer Aquaero 5 LT 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win10 BenQ BL3200PT (32" 2560x1440) Corsair K70 RGB Corsair AX860 
CaseMouseMouse PadOther
NZXT Switch 810 Corsair M65 CIG Aegis Goliath Epson Home Cinema 8350 w/92" 16:9 screen 
Other
HTC Vive 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 5 1600X Asrock X370 Professional Gaming Gigabyte Aorus 1080Ti Xtreme Edition G.Skill TridentZ 3200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
850 EVO 1TB WD 500GB Velociraptor Crucial MX300 1TB Corsair H105 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 10 4k TV Corsair AX860 Cooler Master HAF XB EVO 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech M510 Corsair Lapdog Pioneer SC-81 Epson Home Cinema 8350 
  hide details  
Reply
post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

That's fine. This is an enumerated power.

The Supreme Court thinks otherwise.

And no, "The Internet" is NO an enumerated power.
post #18 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

The Supreme Court thinks otherwise.

And no, "The Internet" is NO an enumerated power.

The Supreme Court said, in one case, that sometimes Congress oversteps its authority in the Commerce Clause.

That does not mean that Congress has no authority, ever, in regards to the Commerce Clause.

Me buying something from Amazon is interstate commerce. Information and communications systems cross state lines. This is the very definition of interstate commerce, and it has been that way for nearly a century. You can crusade all you want about government tyranny, but if you do actually believe in the Constitution, you are forced to take all of it, not just the parts you feel like.
post #19 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

The Supreme Court said, in one case, that sometimes Congress oversteps its authority in the Commerce Clause.

That does not mean that Congress has no authority, ever, in regards to the Commerce Clause.

Me buying something from Amazon is interstate commerce. Information and communications systems cross state lines. This is the very definition of interstate commerce, and it has been that way for nearly a century. You can crusade all you want about government tyranny, but if you do actually believe in the Constitution, you are forced to take all of it, not just the parts you feel like.

Yes, obviously buying something is interstate commerce, but the internet is not just about commerce.

Do you charge your mother every time you send an email? No, of course not. Thus "commerce" has no application in that and many other respect of the internet.

If I give a buddy of mine $20 and he goes to the store for me, the Feds have the right to regulate him just because he is walking to the store to pick up a gallon of milk for me and thus, his shoes fall under the "Commerce Clause" since they are the medium for transportation?

That is why it isn't as cut and dry as you think.


But regardless, I don't really care. I don't live in NC, and there is a ton of ISP's there, several even offer gigabit speeds.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 5/21/15 at 11:33am
post #20 of 60
No, but your ISP does charge you for access to their interstate communications network. That's commerce, and it's fundamentally interstate in nature.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Ars] North Carolina sues FCC for right to block municipal broadband