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post #241 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Hey, don't take it so personally. I know you would say anything to defend Nvidia but this is a real issue that many more people than just me are complaining about. There is no question that GK110 performance has tanked across the board in the last 10 months and there really isn't a good explanation for it other than that Nvidia is trying to push us onto midrange GM204 by nerfing GK110 performance, which was just too close to the new "flagship" at launch.

The same thing will inevitably happen to Titan X owners when "little" Pascal comes out next year, you watch...

How about this explanation - new games, and specifically new Gameworks games, are using code paths that are specifically designed for the Maxwell architecture. Those same code paths don't run well on Kepler, for whatever architectural reason, and either can't be made faster on Kepler, or require extensive work to bring them up to speed. Nvidia has decided, reasonably, to focus their limited driver resources on their new cards, and isn't putting the effort into optimizing the code paths for Kepler cards, which causes them to lag behind Maxwell (which incidentally happens pretty much every generation). AMD is able to keep up because they only have to work on one architecture (GCN and its small variants) which makes their job both easier, and better able to translate to older cards. Does that not seem more plausible than Nvidia purposely slowing down Kepler cards - which if you check benchmarks of games that were around last year, run just as fast now as they did then?

No one is arguing that Kepler cards are not seeing the same gains as Maxwell, particularly in the newest games, but that's a far cry from intentionally crippling performance.

You want some numbers?

Using a quick sample of Techpowerup's reviews here's what I found by comparing 3 games (BF4, Metro:LL, and Watchdogs) over three reviews (Jul 14, Oct 14, and Mar 15). Here's the results:

BF4 (Jul 14, Oct 14, May 15)

290X - 45, 48, 48
780Ti - 48, 48, 52
980 - xx, 53, 58

Metro:LL

290X - 49, 49, 55
780Ti - 52, 52, 56
980 - xx, 56, 58

Watchdogs

290x - 50, 50, 54
780 Ti - 51, 51, 55
980 - xx, 57, 63

The 780 Ti is still neck and neck with the 290X in GTA5 also.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DividebyZERO View Post

The fact you have 2 OG titans and hes calling you bias is where his error is. While you haven't exactly provided proof of your claim, i find it hard to believe you would just up and become bias towards nvidia owning thier products and using them daily. People just don't get mad for no reason at least most sane people. Forceman heavily defended Nvidia about the 970 fiasco in the other thread. There are a few AMD pushers also so its a two way street but it becomes obvious as time goes on.

I never called him biased, I said the cripple Kepler crowd is suffering from confirmation bias. Not the same thing. As for why people with Kepler cards would want to believe that, it's because they don't want to see their cards not be the fastest any longer, same as anyone. And finally, my personal bias is against conspiracy theories.
Edited by Forceman - 5/18/15 at 6:23pm
post #242 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Hey, don't take it so personally. I know you would say anything to defend Nvidia but this is a real issue that many more people than just me are complaining about. There is no question that GK110 performance has tanked across the board in the last 10 months and there really isn't a good explanation for it other than that Nvidia is trying to push us onto midrange GM204 by nerfing GK110 performance, which was just too close to the new "flagship" at launch.

The same thing will inevitably happen to Titan X owners when "little" Pascal comes out next year, you watch...

Post some archived firestrike runs and put this debate to rest. Naysayers are gonna naysay until they get their beloved benchmarks. Firsthand experience doesn't count for anything any more. rolleyes.gif
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post #243 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DividebyZERO View Post

The fact you have 2 OG titans and hes calling you bias is where his error is. While you haven't exactly provided proof of your claim, i find it hard to believe you would just up and become bias towards nvidia owning thier products and using them daily. People just don't get mad for no reason at least most sane people. Forceman heavily defended Nvidia about the 970 fiasco in the other thread. There are a few AMD pushers also so its a two way street but it becomes obvious as time goes on.

That's just it, I still really love my Titans. I'm angry not because they are bad cards all of the sudden, but because they have been neutered in the last year inexplicably. Sure Maxwell will obviously get the majority of attention now from the driver team but I can't understand why my performance would be getting worse (and I am not the only Kepler owner noticing this btw)?
post #244 of 461
I agree with majin ssj

Which is why I sold my one and got a temporary 290x until 390x no more nvidia if true.
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post #245 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Post some archived firestrike runs and put this debate to rest. Naysayers are gonna naysay until they get their beloved benchmarks. Firsthand experience doesn't count for anything any more. rolleyes.gif

Like these from Jun 14 and Mar 15, which show nearly identical results?

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2257611/fs/4302312
Edited by Forceman - 5/18/15 at 6:43pm
post #246 of 461

With a single 780 the game is barely playable at 1440, with mid 20's on hihig.

 

With two 780 it's very playable at mid 40's.

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post #247 of 461
So we have a new Crysis in our midst and everyone is still claiming nVidia conspiracy theories.
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post #248 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's just it, I still really love my Titans. I'm angry not because they are bad cards all of the sudden, but because they have been neutered in the last year inexplicably. Sure Maxwell will obviously get the majority of attention now from the driver team but I can't understand why my performance would be getting worse (and I am not the only Kepler owner noticing this btw)?

We also have evidence pointing to the contrary.

If you look at techpowerup's suite of test games, we don't see anything like that happening.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_X/ - March 17, 2015

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Crysis 3 1080p - 49.5 fps
Metro LL 1080p - 82.2 fps
Tomb Raider 1080p - 57.9 fps

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_290_Vapor-X/ - July 24th, 2014

780 Ti

Battlefield 4 1080p - 79.5 fps
Crysis 3 1080p - 48.5 fps
Metro LL 1080p - 81.5 fps
Tom b Raider 1080p - 58.5 fps
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post #249 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

So we have a new Crysis in our midst and everyone is still claiming nVidia conspiracy theories.


I think the problem is that people aren't amazed by the graphical prowess of TW3, at least relative to Crysis' release. When crysis was released, it was on a completely different level and really could not be compared to anything at the time. The fact that people can compared TW3 to other games(modded skyrim, GTAV) means that the gap between said games isn't as large as Crysis was to the games on its release.
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post #250 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Like these?

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2257611/fs/4302312




No, not like those. You have no idea what settings differ between those two machines. Both of them have different hardware, different background software, and different customizations. You can't just grab two random comparisons from two different time periods because they have vaguely similar numbers and hold them up as equals and worthy of comparison. If you plan to show either an increase or decrease in performance over time it has to come from the same machine with the same settings and the same background programs running.

Apples to apples.

Edit: and if he doesn't have those archived, or if he's changed hardware in the meantime? Well the old drivers can be found all over the place. If you expect him to run the tests though you're going to have to do better than "You're silly, it's your imagination. Go away, I don't want to talk to silly people."
Edited by Ganf - 5/18/15 at 6:48pm
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