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post #251 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudewitbow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

So we have a new Crysis in our midst and everyone is still claiming nVidia conspiracy theories.


I think the problem is that people aren't amazed by the graphical prowess of TW3, at least relative to Crysis' release. When crysis was released, it was on a completely different level and really could not be compared to anything at the time. The fact that people can compared TW3 to other games(modded skyrim, GTAV) means that the gap between said games isn't as large as Crysis was to the games on its release.

I am playing GTA V right now with very good framerates on my 780 Tis. It looks gorgeous to me. I have no doubt that Witcher 3 will impress me too. I have been gaming since Doom on floppies. It was my first PC game followed by Redneck Rampage and Command and Conquer.

Side note to any nVidia users also playing GTA V, don't update drivers based off of what I saw today. Some flickering issues with reflection and rain, as well as with Trevor's clothes sporadically flashing blue for a millisecond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Like these?

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2257611/fs/4302312




No, not like those. You have no idea what settings differ between those two machines. Both of them have different hardware, different background software, and different customizations. You can't just grab two random comparisons from two different time periods because they have vaguely similar numbers and hold them up as equals and worthy of comparison. If you plan to show either an increase or decrease in performance over time it has to come from the same machine with the same settings and the same background programs running.

Apples to apples.

You want someone on Kepler, to benchmark every driver of nVidia to see if Kepler's performance goes up or down?
Edited by RagingCain - 5/18/15 at 6:48pm
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post #252 of 461
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's just it, I still really love my Titans. I'm angry not because they are bad cards all of the sudden, but because they have been neutered in the last year inexplicably. Sure Maxwell will obviously get the majority of attention now from the driver team but I can't understand why my performance would be getting worse (and I am not the only Kepler owner noticing this btw)?

No you are definitely not. There are many others who have raised the same concern both on ocn and other forums like anandtech vc&g forum, hardocp forum. Kepler performance in Gameworks games is just bad. Remember Farcry 4 also ran poorly on Kepler with R9 280X matching GTX 780.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/01/07/far_cry_4_video_card_performance_review/7#.VVqT81IXaZc

Project Cars and Witcher 3 are just the extension of that trend. To see a GTX 960 match a GTX 780 is very bad. Kepler performance in non Gameworks games like GTA V is fine with 780 Ti performing on par with R9 290X and slightly behind GTX 970. But in the titles mentioned above Kepler is performing a full tier lower (on par with GTX 960) .

Anyway long term if this is how Nvidia treats its customers they will come to regret their behaviour as the customer is not dumb. Cards like 8800 GTX/8800 GT , GTX 480/GTX 580 had very good longevity. These performed very well years after their launch. They had excellent architectures which aged very well. In fact the Fermi cards clearly showed their superiority over HD5800/HD 6900 series cards in DX11 games and compute. Only with GCN were AMD able to design a competitive scalable graphics architecture for DX11 games and compute. Today GCN is undoubtedly showing its longevity and I suspect we will see more of the same wrt R9 390X and Titan-X when Pascal launches. thumb.gif
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post #253 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post


No, not like those. You have no idea what settings differ between those two machines. Both of them have different hardware, different background software, and different customizations. You can't just grab two random comparisons from two different time periods because they have vaguely similar numbers and hold them up as equals and worthy of comparison. If you plan to show either an increase or decrease in performance over time it has to come from the same machine with the same settings and the same background programs running.

Apples to apples.

We'll luckily (or unluckily), that's an impossible threshold to meet unless you have a time machine.

Edit: and obviously I know those numbers aren't definitive, but if this crippling was so apparent, it should certainly show some indication in archived results, even if they aren't identical.
Edited by Forceman - 5/18/15 at 6:57pm
post #254 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

I am playing GTA V right now with very good framerates on my 780 Tis. It looks gorgeous to me. I have no doubt that Witcher 3 will impress me too. I have been gaming since Doom on floppies. It was my first PC game followed by Redneck Rampage and Command and Conquer.

I'm sorry, we can't be friends anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

We'll luckily (or unluckily), that's an impossible threshold to meet unless you have a time machine.

Not even remotely, check the edit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

We also have evidence pointing to the contrary.

If you look at techpowerup's suite of test games, we don't see anything like that happening.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_X/ - March 17, 2015

780 Ti

Battlefield 4 1080p - 81.1 fps
Crysis 3 1080p - 49.5 fps
Metro LL 1080p - 82.2 fps
Tomb Raider 1080p - 57.9 fps

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_290_Vapor-X/ - July 24th, 2014

780 Ti

Battlefield 4 1080p - 79.5 fps
Crysis 3 1080p - 48.5 fps
Metro LL 1080p - 81.5 fps
Tom b Raider 1080p - 58.5 fps

I understand that synthetic benchmarks are frowned upon in most cases but in this case it's worth using them as a standard. Games get updated, test machines get tweaked, and different testers may take different setup measures. Benchmarks don't change much though.
Edited by Ganf - 5/18/15 at 6:57pm
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post #255 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post


You want someone on Kepler, to benchmark every driver of nVidia to see if Kepler's performance goes up or down?

We don't need anyone to do that. Techpowerup has done it for us.

When they review a card, they retest all the cards with the latest driver.

The proof is right there for those who take the time to look.
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post #256 of 461
Who believes review sites or benchmarking sites? GTX 970?

Probably nvidia tells them to hush
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post #257 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Anyway long term if this is how Nvidia treats its customers they will come to regret their behaviour as the customer is not dumb. Cards like 8800 GTX/8800 GT , GTX 480/GTX 580 had very good longevity. These performed very well years after their launch. They had excellent architectures which aged very well. In fact the Fermi cards clearly showed their superiority over HD5800/HD 6900 series cards in DX11 games and compute. Only with GCN were AMD able to design a competitive scalable graphics architecture for DX11 games and compute. Today GCN is undoubtedly showing its longevity and I suspect we will see more of the same wrt R9 390X and Titan-X when Pascal launches. thumb.gif

When AMD last switched architectures from vliw to gcn, did they continue to provide performance optimizations for vliw cards or just compatibility support?
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post #258 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerkageTurk View Post

Who believes review sites or benchmarking sites? GTX 970?

Probably nvidia tells them to hush

So the same site that we can use to prove Nvidia isn't optimizing Kepler anymore can't be used to prove they aren't sabotaging older games?

How does that even make sense to you?
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post #259 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

We don't need anyone to do that. Techpowerup has done it for us.

When they review a card, they retest all the cards with the latest driver.

The proof is right there for those who take the time to look.
Well apparently we should be praising the gcn driver team for coming from behind at launch to whalloping gk110 by " 7 fps tongue.gif " . An no reason this game should be tanking this hard at 1440 with graphics in their current state imo.

Also sapphire 285 "+50mhz" nearly = to og titan ..... pitiful. -- this is the the card the need to continue decent driver support for....
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post #260 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

We don't need anyone to do that. Techpowerup has done it for us.

When they review a card, they retest all the cards with the latest driver.

The proof is right there for those who take the time to look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

When AMD last switched architectures from vliw to gcn, did they continue to provide performance optimizations for vliw cards or just compatibility support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

So the same site that we can use to prove Nvidia isn't optimizing Kepler anymore can't be used to prove they aren't sabotaging older games?

How does that even make sense to you?

Look, I can't test it for obvious reasons, but the answer is also obvious.

proof.gif

Until someone takes the time to try and isolate the cause and show that the only differentiating factor is or is not the drivers, you're all just farting in the wind. It doesn't matter who it comes from, if you want to prove there's been no change in drivers run the tests that shows Kepler hasn't been decreasing in performance. If you want to show it has gone downhill, you can run the tests too.

All of these different charts and claims mean nothing because you guys are trying to analyze the performance of one piece in a complicated machine without checking to see what effects the rest of the machine is having. Kill the argument with fire and run some clean tests.
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