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[WFFC]Nvidia Responds To Witcher 3 GameWorks Controversy, PC Gamers On The Offensive - Page 9

post #81 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

What you are "wanting" has never existed, and arguably can't exist as there is not one manufacturer that produces every component so they could create an open platform. On top of which, where would be their funding? Open source does not keep business afloat. Hardware/Software vendors have to work together in harmony even still. Everything getting licensed or cross-licensed. Your CPU is proprietary, as is the chipset on your motherboard, to the integrated memory controllers on the DRAM chips.

Gaming graphics are at an all time high, gaming hardware has never been more powerful, the gaming industry is generating billions of dollars annually, modding is now usually expected and easier than before, we have vast digital access and fair pricing (for the most part), and we now have a choice in OSes in some AAA titles. For triple AAA choices, many of us have catalogs of games we have bought and not even played yet. Nvidia has a middleware and AMD have their own API. If I buy an AMD card, I get Mantle, if I get NVIDIA I get GameWorks. I wouldnt expect Office for Windows to run on a Mac, but here Nvidia is letting that happen. The same nVidia which used to disable features all together if AMD was detected on the machine. So they are making progress towards being more inclusive.

So what metric are you using to gauge that gaming is going backwards?

I don't understand how so many people this eludes which results in all this finger pointing. You would expect some to see it as entirely unfair and kickoff, but in a forum of seemingly like minded enthusiasts regardless of which vender their GPU is with - the majority don't seem to grasp how the software industry works at all. It boils down to pointing fingers at a company that is protecting their own intellectual property. This isn't a case of simply just a one off technology as seemingly TressFX is, NVIDIA is a huge conglomerate with numerous shader technologies and who continue to develop them. Why should they hand these out for free just because AMD Roy says they should?

Half of you are barking up completely the wrong tree. Nobody is forcing you to enable GameWorks effects, if you don't like it, then ask yourself what's keeping you with your AMD card because seemingly nobody is asking them to do anything about it other than instigate the situation. Whining about it, essentially, the manufacturer of your GPU is whining to you.
Edited by Silent Scone - 5/19/15 at 11:05pm
post #82 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inelastic View Post

Doesn't GTA V have Gameworks in it? That game runs great on my 780Ti Classy, even with the special NVIDIA stuff enabled and the benchmarks I've seen show it around the same as a 290X. Is there a difference in that vs how The Witcher 3 used it?

Yes GTA V uses gameworks. But it is also part of the AMD games package meaning that they worked with AMD as well for AMD technology.

GTA V uses AMD's CHS which doesn't work on nvidia, but it also uses PCSS from Nvidia which doesn't work on AMD cards. I bet it took the developer some time to make support for everything, and CDPR didn't have that time or money to make it work both ways.

I guess the main difference is that CDPR were only working with nvidia and not with AMD.
This I guess made AMD guys mad and so decided to take the whining to the public.

In the end of the day, you can always disable Nvidia special tech and run the game smoothly without issues if you are using AMD GPUs. There is nothing wrong with that. No one is promising every tech to work on every card from any manufacturer.

TBH, I wonder why no one is mad at the Nvidia and AMD for not allowing their tech to work on intel GPUs. After all, intel is the biggest GPU seller...
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post #83 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inelastic View Post

That's actually a very good question. This game does show that it is possible for both to play nicely, but is that the case in general? Did Rockstar just throw a bunch of money at AMD and NVIDIA for luxury support of their game to get it done properly? Rockstar was under alot of pressure from gamers to get the PC version right, and they do have the budget to do things like that. CDPR doesn't have nearly the amount of resources that Rockstar has and they also are known for being gamer friendly, so did they just get entry level support and weren't able to get it done the way Rockstar did? It may be possible that their stuff does technically work together, but just needs more work than most developers can or are willing to put in in order for the game to be "fully optimized."

Yeah, I think GTAV is relatively good proof that nvidia and amd functionality can be implemented.

CDPR had over a million preorders? They have the resources, but from the sounds of it haven't done a good job finalizing it.... or something. Bad mouse + keyboard and lack of rebinding controls? A host of other little PC issues... W3 not only sounds poorly optimized, but it doesn't sound like the PC version got a whole lot of attention to detail.

They should have just pulled a R* and said the PC version wouldn't be ready.

I got to play a little bit of W3... it's rough around the edges.... everywhere. The character models look good, so does the far off distance. The controls are kinda weird, cutscenes are painful, natural movement of vegetation is just bizarre. Why does everything have to have colors and flowers everywhere... even in the damn tavern looked like an LSD trip. I much preferred the dark and gritty look... outside is not that colorful and wonderland. It looks like project lead or design lead changed dramatically in the middle of development. Someone got involved and added too much cartoon.

The feel of the menu, dialogue prompts not disappearing, not being able to escape to main menu during QTEs.... combat was laggy.

I understand that at some point a developer has to say we gotta stop tinkering with it and get it out but this one probably should have stayed in development a little bit longer.

And playing it on dual 970's, I'm not gonna even consider buying this game with my single 980. Shame.
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post #84 of 94
You know I just saw a post on gametraielrs where someone brought up that PS3 zombie game from Naughtydogs everybody slobbers about.

The hair on in that game looks comparable and ever better at times than Hairworks. Why do i get the feeling that Nvidia could have pushed CDPR to nerf hair effects in Witcher to push HW. What I am saying is, all the closed API nonsense could lead to if it hasn't already really shady cut our competitor off practices
post #85 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

You know I just saw a post on gametraielrs where someone brought up that PS3 zombie game from Naughtydogs everybody slobbers about.

The hair on in that game looks comparable and ever better at times than Hairworks. Why do i get the feeling that Nvidia could have pushed CDPR to nerf hair effects in Witcher to push HW. What I am saying is, all the closed API nonsense could lead to if it hasn't already really shady cut our competitor off practices

Because that's illegal, in America you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.
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post #86 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superplush View Post

Sadly this has been known for some time, I think they also do it with G-sync too. American companies with their shady tactics, can't they just try and win on a level playing-field? I mean, it's not like they don't have a good product to start with, they don't need to do this crap.

Yeah, as opposed to the protectionist tariffs that the UK puts in place to try and keep out US and other countries products? But by all means, complain about "American companies with their shady tactics".

rolleyes.gif
post #87 of 94
You'd think it would've been preferable to utilize more of the AMD hardware since 2/3rd of their target base is going to be on AMD run consoles.

Some people asked - so why didn't AMD push TressFX into production and have the code split - similar to GTA?

The answer: $$$$

CDPR is developing a AAA multiplat - resources are undoubtedly tight. The extra time it takes to implement new features and changes, which could have varying effects on each system, takes more development time. You either have to push back your milestones to allow for proper quality control, rush through it and hope a future patch can correct any mishaps, OR invest in 3rd party support.

In this case, CDPR isn't having to make that investment in the 3rd party - the 3rd party (Nvidia) is making their own investment in Witcher 3. Nvidia apparently foresees a ROI with investing their time/technologies/money into enhancing Witcher 3's visuals.

AMD may see that ROI potential, but they also may lack the internal assets to spend time/money on enhancing Witcher 3 for their own base.

Last time I remember AMD really investing in some games, I think they spent 8 million dollars on a deal with EA - and pretty much each of those games as part of that deal had some type of AMD related features and performed great out the door. 8 million dollars doesn't come cheap though - not for a company like AMD.

TLDR
Moral of the story - if you're asking why things are the way they are. The answer is money.
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post #88 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Said Nobody View Post


source/

Dont know if anyone posted this yet.

The part that got me was "game developers engaged in the Nvidia GameWorks program were still not allowed to work with AMD to optimize the code for their hardware. Something which Nvidia initially denied but later Nvidia’s Tom Petersen and Rev Lebaradian admitted. Witcher 3 developers, CD Projekt Red, reaffirmed this again two days ago." Just because the NV extreme fan boys were like "NVIDIA wouldnt do that" lol

Cool source "WFFC"
post #89 of 94
The people on AMD hardware complaining about bad performance when running hairworks should go into their control panel and set the witcher3.exe to have a 4x max tessellation level. Then go see how nice the game runs with hairworks turned on rolleyes.gif And we all already know AMD hardware has bad tess performance and that was addressed in GCN 1.2, too bad AMD still doesnt have any GCN1.2 products on the market :/
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post #90 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

The people on AMD hardware complaining about bad performance when running hairworks should go into their control panel and set the witcher3.exe to have a 4x max tessellation level. Then go see how nice the game runs with hairworks turned on rolleyes.gif And we all already know AMD hardware has bad tess performance and that was addressed in GCN 1.2, too bad AMD still doesnt have any GCN1.2 products on the market :/

Actually you can go all the way to 16X and lower the shadow and foilage density. Makes little to no difference visually.

But this works only for Witcher 3 I think. I have a feeling someone in CDPR might have left a backdoor for people to get this exploit. I doubt Nvidia would allow this to happen seeing how the do anything they can to make sure Nvidia features only work with Nvidia hardware
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