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[Various] AMD HBM presentation and slides - Page 14

post #131 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

Among the ones that are aware it's mostly just AMD users who disapprove, for obvious reasons. Most Nvidia users defend Nvidia's use of GameWorks. In any case, it's besides the point, and even if they may not say so they've already voted with their wallets. Stuff like Gameworks and PhysX only positively affect people's decisions. They're both marketable features and they both add to Nvidia's brand awareness. PhysX is obviously more powerful in that sense since it's exclusive to Nvidia.

AMD's own gameworks library would just make it easier for devs. Simply pick and choose from which library features can be taken, or have multiple paths. I sincerely doubt the devs use Gameworks without some sort of incentive from Nvidia. If AMD has to bribe them through legal methods like extra technical support, free equipment, or marketing supporting then so be it.

Point is, AMD should be doing what Nvidia does. Exclusive features, proprietary libraries, closer dev relations, etc.

I wonder if they're still up for defending it now that Nvidia's cards are showing to perform worse than AMD on TW3?

Somehow AMD's drivers are magically outperforming Nvidia in Pcars on windows 10, though some would say it's not surprising because that's where AMD's focus is on right now.

Seems to me that Nvidia owners have more to complain about than AMD owners at the moment.
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post #132 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Some of the earliest rumors were that of a 4GB and 8GB flavor, along with a water cooled edition. I wouldn't be surprised to see an 8GB WC version, and a 4 GB air cooled version for ~$200 less.

$649 for the 4GB model /w air, and $849 for the 8GB and Water Cooled version? That gives them a Halo product and a flagship product off the same materials essentially. Also handles the "When will the double VRAM version come out?!" for all the people that want that sort of thing.

Pretty much what I expect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

funny you are talking about the people who knew GDDR5 was going to have to be replaced by a better memory technology and actually did something about it. You guys should give AMD more credit than what you are doing. ATI / AMD have been the driver of memory standards in the graphics industry for a long long time. Anyway its not long before we see what AMD have actually done.

No one is "not giving them credit", but new technologies are hard, and it's quite possible that they ran into limitations they didn't initially expect.
post #133 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

I wonder if they're still up for defending it now that Nvidia's cards are showing to perform worse than AMD on TW3?

Somehow AMD's drivers are magically outperforming Nvidia in Pcars on windows 10, though some would say it's not surprising because that's where AMD's focus is on right now.

Seems to me that Nvidia owners have more to complain about than AMD owners at the moment.

From the Nvidia perspective there is nothing wrong with GameWorks. It only prohibits devs from collaborating with AMD to optimize GameWork code. No such restriction about Nvidia working with devs to optimize the code for Nvidia.

They might complain about the performance but there's nothing to take offense with what Gameworks is. Two entirely different things. I'm sure most people will point fingers at the devs for performance problems anyway. Nvidia's "best driver" image isn't just for show.
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post #134 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

From the Nvidia perspective there is nothing wrong with GameWorks. It only prohibits devs from collaborating with AMD to optimize GameWork code. No such restriction about Nvidia working with devs to optimize the code for Nvidia.

They might complain about the performance but there's nothing to take offense with what Gameworks is.

Is it something that reduces performance for consumers all around?

Then yes, they do have a reason to complain about what it is.

Moreover, please read what you described. That very nature of gameworks is what should have everybody, Nvidia and AMD owners alike, up in arms and tearing down the walls.
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post #135 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Pretty much what I expect.
No one is "not giving them credit", but new technologies are hard, and it's quite possible that they ran into limitations they didn't initially expect.

AMD's been working on HBM for how many years? Was it 2013 or earlier? With all of that prior knowledge that only few companies have how did they not bother to think of the limitations beforehand? I'd like to imagine they have some foresight but then again they, AMD, didn't expect to be in this current situation either with low profits, dwindling market share, and a stigma of being the bargain brand with terrible drivers and wonky VRR support.
post #136 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon View Post

AMD's been working on HBM for how many years? Was it 2013 or earlier? With all of that prior knowledge that only few companies have how did they not bother to think of the limitations beforehand? I'd like to imagine they have some foresight but then again they, AMD, didn't expect to be in this current situation either with low profits, dwindling market share, and a stigma of being the bargain brand with terrible drivers and wonky VRR support.

I'm not much for playing the blame game but it's reasonable to suspect that they didn't expect Hynix to have this many problems making HBM1.
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post #137 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon View Post

and a stigma of being the bargain brand with terrible drivers and wonky VRR support.
what? there you see GK slower than GCN,Tell which has bad drivers.
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2459884/width/500/height/1000
Edited by PontiacGTX - 5/20/15 at 11:11am
post #138 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

I'm not much for playing the blame game but it's reasonable to suspect that they didn't expect Hynix to have this many problems making HBM1.

Just like AMD didn't expect so many issues with current scalers and monitor panels with their VRR solution.

You do something new you should expect some constraints but AMD is so used to rehashing what they know and expect things to simply work by sprinkling pixy dust on it. Hopefully it won't be too devastating for them as far as yields go and eventually pan out, otherwise I guess it's all banking on Zen from here on out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

what? there you see GK slower than GCN,Tell which has bad drivers.

You know what the definition of stigma is I'm guessing? Their drivers may improved but that doesn't change much when the average Joe still believes the drivers are not the best.

Also what's up with the 'semi-final review build' and HW off and SSAO instead of HBAO?
Edited by Shogon - 5/20/15 at 11:13am
post #139 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

We're Family?

Does that mean that night before last when @PostalTwinkie and I were... We were actually... And that makes it....

Ewwww...

Ewwww!

EWWWWWW!!!

who-let-rip-smiley.png

Best to keep it in the family wink.gifthumb.gif



On topic, I'm hoping this HBM will truly bring a massive jump in performance overall. Hell, even for it to beat the TitanX if possible.

But what I wish there was more information on is numbers...the ones that really matter. Benchmarks and official specs.



Also I wonder how HBM2 will go with NVIDIA in 2016, and if they'll have similar issues as AMD.
Oh GPU wars how I love you.
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post #140 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Is it something that reduces performance for consumers all around?

Then yes, they do have a reason to complain about what it is.

Moreover, please read what you described. That very nature of gameworks is what should have everybody, Nvidia and AMD owners alike, up in arms and tearing down the walls.

It's not though, at least not that consumers are aware of. Hairworks reduces performance of course, but that's because it's an extra setting. How many Nvidia fans think gameworks is gimping their performance? I haven't seen any here or /g/ or anand, and they're some of the more "aware" communities.

Should have everybody up in arms, should have. It doesn't though. Nvidia users/fans have no investment in AMD. Why should they care about whether it affects AMD users or not? The line of logic that AMD is necessary to keep Nvidia competitive is too abstract and assumes companies are altruistic beings, like humans, that help each other, as if they need to generate social capital to be successful. Consumers just want what they think is the best for them, and that often means Nvidia, because it has unique features, it has a lot of brand power (ex driver reputation, gameworks, TWIMTBP, featured in a lot of laptops, etc), and popular partners (EVGA). People see Nvidia as the leader and the innovator and affordable at any price point. AMD doesn't have the same image, except affordable.

If AMD wants to survive they're going to have to kick Nvidia's butt on the hardware front, or start playing the software game. They can't ignore it anymore. Hopefully Lisa Su's remarks about AMD putting more focus on homegrown software extends to their consumer GPU division.
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