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[Various] AMD HBM presentation and slides - Page 3

post #21 of 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

So maybe the speculation was true from the start that 3xx are OEM products only and the new full line-up is 4xx? rolleyes.gif

It should be pretty clear at this point that Fiji is the only new chip in the lineup. No other GPU has actually been seen in shipping lists, drivers, sisoft etc. leaks.

Personally before this slide stack came out I was thinking that the 300 AIB series consisted of Fiji, Hawaii, Tonga, pitcairn and bonaire with Fiji coming in with both 8GB and 4GB versions (due to the leaked slides) and hawaii coming in with 8GB memory and slightly higher clocks.

I'm still pretty sure that I was pretty close but I'm not so sure about the 8GB versions of Fiji anymore. Or I'm almost sure that we'll see some at one point but maybe not at launch. Maybe the original slides were faked after all. Or maybe something changed after them.

But I never believed the "300 OEM series is completely different from 300 AIB" talk. And I definitely do not believe that now. I think we'll see Tonga occupy the 380 series and hawaii above that (whether called 390 series or something else will remain to be seen) with Fiji coming in to the top of the stack with a different form factor, different cooling, higher price and lots of marketing (think hawaii launch but during computex and E3).

And added to OP thumb.gif
 
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post #22 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingduqc View Post

Pcper get me worried about 4gb of vram... Seem low.
Quote:
When I asked Macri about this issue, he expressed confidence in AMD's ability to work around this capacity constraint. In fact, he said that current GPUs aren't terribly efficient with their memory capacity simply because GDDR5's architecture required ever-larger memory capacities in order to extract more bandwidth. As a result, AMD "never bothered to put a single engineer on using frame buffer memory better," because memory capacities kept growing. Essentially, that capacity was free, while engineers were not. Macri classified the utilization of memory capacity in current Radeon operation as "exceedingly poor" and said the "amount of data that gets touched sitting in there is embarrassing."
Quote:
Joe Macri did close our discussion mentioning that while what we see here with Gen I HBM is shown with four stacks of DRAM, it could possibly go higher as production methods of HBM became more precise

Edited by PontiacGTX - 5/19/15 at 7:49am
post #23 of 208
HBM sounds good and all but I just doubt AMD can pull it off. All they do is talk and no action. Too poor to compete with Intel and Nvidia. Once this comes out Nvidia will hit them back with better pricing or equal performance. Then HBM2 will come out next year and sweep it when Nvidia uses it. Nothing that AMD has said or hyped has proven a winner. Where are the drivers at? Nowhere to be found. mad.gif
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post #24 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalkilla408 View Post

HBM sounds good and all but I just doubt AMD can pull it off. All they do is talk and no action. Too poor to compete with Intel and Nvidia. Once this comes out Nvidia will hit them back with better pricing or equal performance. Then HBM2 will come out next year and sweep it when Nvidia uses it. Nothing that AMD has said or hyped has proven a winner. Where are the drivers at? Nowhere to be found. mad.gif
The HBM development was done years ago and mad epublic on 2011/2013. this is the official announcement of iit for AMD cards.

Nvidia cant hit again,with a better price because already has a 1000usd video card and the next will be 700usd to 650usd and AMD pricing with 4 GB could be around 600s

AMD will use 2nd gen HBM aswell.

you dont know that AMD released the first card with GDDR5,right?
post #25 of 208
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post


This is known as a combination of PR speak and knowing that you have an issue but trying to mitigate it in any way you can without offering any proof that you've actually succeeded in doing so.

As far as I'm concerned capacity is capacity and AMD will actually have to prove that they can work around the 4GB limitation if they end up trying to go that route.
 
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post #26 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

This is known as a combination of PR speak and knowing that you have an issue but trying to mitigate it in any way you can without offering any proof that you've actually succeeded in doing so.

As far as I'm concerned capacity is capacity and AMD will actually have to prove that they can work around the 4GB limitation if they end up trying to go that route.
which issue?
post #27 of 208
Reading all this... The main point getting through to me is that AMD is swimming in deep waters. With their R&D budget and project management, being the trailblazer for such a multidimensional challenge is seriously risky business. I'm afraid it might be one of those cases where AMD has the concept right but the execution comes short. Recently they just seem to have a tendency to fumble in these situations. But then again, GDDR5 turned out right for them, so here's hoping... And I really do hope for the best. I can't see myself buying Fiji, but get the Hawaii refresh right and I'm there.

What ever happens, it's finally getting interesting in the GPU world again. It's about time!
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post #28 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post

I dont understand why people are saying 4GB is the limit when Anandtech writes
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9266/amd-hbm-deep-dive/4

is that not HBM 1. Gen?

It is. AFAIK, there is no limit of 4 stacks. Each stack has a maximal height of 5 dies (1 logic + 4 memory), but you can have as many stacks as you can fit. There might be a practical or economical reason to not go beyond 4 stacks, but it's not technological. If anyone has any source that shows that HBM1 can't do more than 4 stacks of 5 dies, please share.
post #29 of 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

which issue?

4GB vram capacity on an ultra high end GPU targeted at 4K in 2015.

If they are claiming that 4GB is actually what they're going to do and that they can work around it they're going to have to prove it with actual testing before I actually believe it.
 
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post #30 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

This is known as a combination of PR speak and knowing that you have an issue but trying to mitigate it in any way you can without offering any proof that you've actually succeeded in doing so.

As far as I'm concerned capacity is capacity and AMD will actually have to prove that they can work around the 4GB limitation if they end up trying to go that route.

I have no doubt that AMD will be able to go dual stack and get 8GB out of GEN1. I just don't think it will be their mainstream card and won't be "free". I'm sure they will come out with some variants to the R9 390X for a premium price ... maybe on the water cooled version ... that will have 8GB. But as was said, with a dual stack, it won't increase memory bandwidth beyond the first 4, only add capacity.

I think that AMD will come out with the 4GB cards first, then maybe in 4-6 months, right before nVidia drops their GEN2 cards, they will drop the dual stack GEN1s and try to extend the life of their cards before they release the next generation of cards with GEN2 memory.

AMD is already floating slides that basically as ignoring the need for 4K (at least with multiple monitors) and thus higher memory needs (ie the Titan X and 12GB). So I think they are sort of stuck, for now, with 4GB and it'll be a couple months before they can go to 8GB and then once again embrace 4K, and eventually 8K.

Of course, DirectX 12 could change all this ... depending on how fast it is adopted. Who knows, maybe that is one of the reasons why AMD is now working hard WITH Microsoft instead of against them ... to embrace the ability to have multiple cards share memory.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 5/19/15 at 7:57am
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