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[Various] AMD HBM presentation and slides - Page 7

post #61 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEddieNYC View Post

AMD has invested 7 years and considerable(for them)resources helping create HBM memory. They may not hold all the patents but there is plenty of license agreements in place so they can capitalize their investment. In the end Nvidia and any other company that uses HBM will have to pay AMD and the others that developed it royalty fees.

No doubt, but it really isn't all that much.

Just look at the Micron/Rambus patent war ... that was settled with a 0.6% royalty fee.

"nVidia paid Rambus 1% royalty fees for SDR memory and 2% for certain memory controllers for DDR, DDR2, DDR3, LPDDR, LPDDR2, GDDR2, GDDR3, GDDR4, and portions of the GDDR5 memory controllers with a maximum average net sales price for each royalty bearing product not to exceed twenty US Dollars per unit."

Yeah, as we mentioned before, it'll be a nice hunk of change for AMD, who is hurting for money, so anything positive is ... well positive.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 5/19/15 at 1:30pm
post #62 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

As I recall it meant a decent increase in gross revenue, but hardly anything in terms of actual profit.
Even if they dont make money they gain market share for gcn, lots of weak cores and apus which means better software optimization for them, eg now we have a console and pc running the same api.
post #63 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

At a glance none of these describe anything we know about AMD's HBM. They're just described as "High-bandwidth memory".

These are some of AMD's stacked memory patents.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20130159812?dq=inassignee:%22Advanced+micro%22+%22stacked+memory%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TIZbVamNBNLAgwTX_IGIDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBjgU
Stacked memory with a logic layer

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140040532?dq=inassignee:%22Advanced+micro%22+through+silicon+via+memory&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NoVbVcn2BsikNvnqgfgM&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCTgK
This describes a patent for a memory device that is comprised of a stack of memory layers and one or more logic devices, which can include the interface. Sounds like AMD's HBM.

thanks for finding that. yeah thats the patent for AMD's work on HBM. thumb.gif

I hope atleast now a certain person does not claim that AMD did not design HBM. AMD and Hynix are the inventors of HBM and proposed it to JEDEC who adopted it as JESD 235 standard in Oct 2013. This is a fact. thumb.gif
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post #64 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

At a glance none of these describe anything we know about AMD's HBM. They're just described as "High-bandwidth memory".

These are some of AMD's stacked memory patents.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20130159812?dq=inassignee:%22Advanced+micro%22+%22stacked+memory%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TIZbVamNBNLAgwTX_IGIDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBjgU
Stacked memory with a logic layer

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140040532?dq=inassignee:%22Advanced+micro%22+through+silicon+via+memory&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NoVbVcn2BsikNvnqgfgM&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCTgK
This describes a patent for a memory device that is comprised of a stack of memory layers and one or more logic devices, which can include the interface. Sounds like AMD's HBM.

thanks for finding that. yeah thats the patent for AMD's work on HBM. thumb.gif

I hope atleast now a certain person does not claim that AMD did not design HBM. AMD and Hynix are the inventors of HBM and proposed it to JEDEC who adopted it as JESD 235 standard in Oct 2013. This is a fact. thumb.gif


Truths and fact unfortunately will not stop the misinformer.
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post #65 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Truths and fact unfortunately will not stop the misinformer.

well said thumb.gif The forums are going to be alive next month if they are not already tongue.gif
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post #66 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

well said thumb.gif The forums are going to be alive next month if they are not already tongue.gif

Especially if these new 4GB rumors are true. We'll all get whiplash from how fast the story will change on how much VRAM is needed.
post #67 of 208
This is incredibly cool tech. smile.gif These kinds of innovations are what make AMD awesome. And according to Joe Macri, new techniques in memory utilization will make excessive memory a thing of the past which in turn saves me money. I'm all for it. If I don't need 8GB (or an idiotic 12GB), don't give it to me just to add unneeded cost to the card. If 4 is all that's required just give me that please. I think it's pretty obvious by now which company gives their customers future proof cards, and which one nerfs them to extort as much money as they can from their customers. If AMD (and developers themselves) say that 4GB is plenty, I'll trust their judgment. Now if on the other hand NV was saying that, I'd just consider it another lie and con job that they are known for.
At any rate, GDDR5 is looking boring and antiquated compared to HBM. thumb.gif
post #68 of 208
What will be interesting is to see the temperatures on these memory chips. They're so close to the die I wonder if the memory will need to be cooled by the same cooler used for the gpu? Maybe they won't need to be cooled at all...
post #69 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Valid question. If so, could very well be a nice money source for AMD. But having said that, IF AMD gets anything, I seriously doubt it will be much, after all it's not like AMD is know for being a memory designer, further, since it is a JEDEC standard. As such, they have to abide by the JEDEC patent standards. So maybe if they get $1 a pop for the patent, I would suspect that AMD would get maybe $0.10 of that. AMD "helped" develop GDDR5 (along with a lot of other companies), so in reality, since HBM will displace GDDR5 eventually, what ever money they get from the HBM patent will offset what they are no longer getting from GDDR5 patent revenues.

HBM really is nothing new, it really was born out of the idea of the Hybrid Memory Cube technology that was developed to be faster than DDR3 and had about a dozen companies developing it. HBM is basically better, so it won.

If it's not new why isn't it ubiquitous out in the wild? That's like saying space elevators and hyperloops are "nothing new," since the ideas have been around for a while.

The attempt to discredit anything AMD is expected from one of the biggest Nvidia fanbois on these forums though.
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post #70 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

The attempt to discredit anything AMD is expected from one of the biggest Nvidia fanbois on these forums though.

thumb.gif

Joe Macri of AMD came out swinging saying AMD did the hard work to design this next gen memory technology and took it to JEDEC. Macri did not spare Nvidia saying they are showing presentations while we (AMD) were working. tongue.gif

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2922599/amd-talks-up-high-bandwidth-memory-that-will-power-its-next-gpus-pokes-nvidia-too.html

Macri didn’t mince any words when speaking of his chief competitor. Nvidia flouted a chip-stacking technique on its upcoming—but now delayed—Volta GPU as early as 2013. With Volta now delayed, Nvidia’s first GPU with stacked memory likely won’t appear until 2016, when its Pascal GPU ships with a similar 2.5D stacking technique.

Nvidia creates PowerPoints and talks in advance like they are the wonderful leader of everything,” Macri said derisively. “While they’re talking, we’re working.”

Macri said AMD has been the primary driver of HBM memory in the industry.

We do internal development with partners, we then take that development to open standards bodies and we open it up to the world,” he said. “This is how Nvidia got GDDR3 and how they got GDDR5. This is what AMD does. We truly believe building islands is not as good as building continents.”

Macri is probably in a position to know: Besides being AMD’s Chief Technology Officer, Macri has long been a chairman at JEDEC, the group that blesses memory standards for the industry.

I have great respect for this guy. He is a legend right from his days as Director of Technology at ATI designing the R300 GPU aka Radeon 9700 Pro and the GDDR3 standard thumb.gif

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/ATI+Demonstrates+World's+First+Graphics+Cards+Powered+by+DDR-2...-a093133367
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR3
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