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post #121 of 135
What? Is this for real?
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post #122 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Yeah, with all respect about Seronx, i vividly remember him categorically stating that there would be no new SKUs for AM3+ and some months later, the new "e" and 8370 came out. So, prophetizing is interesting, but it's not a science. Personally, i have saved Seronx's prophecy in an image. When Zen comes out, if it's a disaster, i will seek out his old post and give him 2 reps. If not, we can all laugh at the doomsday prophecy.


Seronx is no Nostradamus.
post #123 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

What? Is this for real?

The code itself is purely demonstrative, however I do have some code online that demonstrates the point:

https://github.com/looncraz/Task-C-11

There is a lock-free implementation in the "moody" branch, and the highest performing, but experimental, version is in "new2."

This code is specifically designed to use C++11 features and provide shockingly better performance than C++11's std:async (which, itself, is barely able to handle two cores and, often enough, is slower than doing the work in-line)... it also contains considerable amount of performance monitoring code in the thread loop (FutureThread::_Thread).

The scaling is nearly 100% perfectly in the new2 branch, with one of my test load scenarios specifically designed to extract the maximum scaling. In fact, due to timing idiosyncrasies, it will sometimes come out as slightly greater than 100% effective rolleyes.gif Which is to say that eight cores will give you effectively eight times the performance of std::async on eight cores (if running code has no locking contention of its own).

I've put a lot of thought into using every available processing capability available from the CPUs for a long time thumb.gif
post #124 of 135
Hopefully, Zen will be amazing.

I think alot of people forget that AMD was competing with Cyrix and VIA in the chip market when Intel was the big dog...and then it suddenly trumped the market in price and performance and Intel could absolutely not keep up.

AMD DID this by, TRYING something, while Intel wanted to just brute-force beat them at die-shrink. Intel failed. Intel learned. And Intel has again hit a wall of waning performance increases with each generation. If AMD has something up it's sleeve, it's Zen. Intel is again chasing the shrink, as they did the last time they knew their world was going to get wrecked.
post #125 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

The code itself is purely demonstrative, however I do have some code online that demonstrates the point:

https://github.com/looncraz/Task-C-11

There is a lock-free implementation in the "moody" branch, and the highest performing, but experimental, version is in "new2."

This code is specifically designed to use C++11 features and provide shockingly better performance than C++11's std:async (which, itself, is barely able to handle two cores and, often enough, is slower than doing the work in-line)... it also contains considerable amount of performance monitoring code in the thread loop (FutureThread::_Thread).

The scaling is nearly 100% perfectly in the new2 branch, with one of my test load scenarios specifically designed to extract the maximum scaling. In fact, due to timing idiosyncrasies, it will sometimes come out as slightly greater than 100% effective rolleyes.gif Which is to say that eight cores will give you effectively eight times the performance of std::async on eight cores (if running code has no locking contention of its own).

I've put a lot of thought into using every available processing capability available from the CPUs for a long time thumb.gif

But... But.... Amdahl's law! biggrin.gif
post #126 of 135

AMD needs to pull something up out of the depths, especially with Intel showing signs of a plateau (at least for the next year or less) in the die shrink dept.  But I personally still have love for AMD's CPU's as they treated me and clients well, but from my 4790k vs the 8350, I noticed a huge difference in tasks  (in Photo processing programs - Adobe Photoshop & LightRoom), and now that I jumped to a 5930k there's no comparison.  AMD really needs something to compete and put Intel back into the true competitive ring (beneficial to the customers).

     
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post #127 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBaggins View Post

AMD needs to pull something up out of the depths, especially with Intel showing signs of a plateau (at least for the next year or less) in the die shrink dept.  But I personally still have love for AMD's CPU's as they treated me and clients well, but from my 4790k vs the 8350, I noticed a huge difference in tasks  (in Photo processing programs - Adobe Photoshop & LightRoom), and now that I jumped to a 5930k there's no comparison.  AMD really needs something to compete and put Intel back into the true competitive ring (beneficial to the customers).

It just depends on what is the most profitable price point they can offer a better performing product.
It would be interesting to know what the sales figures are for cpu's at given price points are. Would it be worth the investment for AMD to offer a product that is competitive with the 5960 if it only represents 5% of desktop sales?


Does the 5930K justify the 3x+ price tag over the 8350 in performance alone or is it a bit skewed because there is no competing product offered by AMD? Intel seems to be pricing them with about a 25% premium above where it should be if there were a direct competitor. Would that be a fairly accurate estimation, based on what you use them for?
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post #128 of 135

Truthfully for me it was worth it over my past 8350 & 4790k in what I'm using it for (F@H, CAD, Photo Production in med to large format), not that the 8350 wasn't bad for what it is.  Also yeah really AMD needs to aim more towards the likes of the 4790k - 6700k and build from there, since like you said people who shell out for a 5960x is definitely a small amount of consumers.  Then on the pricing, it's definitely skewed since there is nothing truely in AMD's arsenault that can compete will the 2011-v3 i7's as of yet.

 

(average 8350 PPD was only 30-40k PPD vs 4790k was at 50-65k PPD vs 5930k is chomping away @ 70-85k PPD - still tweaking to see 95-100k PPD, which I can see as being possible)

     
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post #129 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpacket View Post

But... But.... Amdahl's law! biggrin.gif

Would still apply the program using it, naturally, but the system itself scales nearly 100% perfectly with each additional core.

There is overhead for each core, but it is endured up-front. During full-use, you hit near-perfect scaling with only a very specific workload (basically just a 1ms sleep thumb.gif).

When you start using real code, you end up with the normal hardware constraints, potential locking issues, and so on. That is what Amdahl's law takes into account.

std::async, though, barely scales beyond one core - and tb::async scales to n cores, in theory (only tested with 8).
post #130 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBaggins View Post

Truthfully for me it was worth it over my past 8350 & 4790k in what I'm using it for (F@H, CAD, Photo Production in med to large format), not that the 8350 wasn't bad for what it is.  Also yeah really AMD needs to aim more towards the likes of the 4790k - 6700k and build from there, since like you said people who shell out for a 5960x is definitely a small amount of consumers.  Then on the pricing, it's definitely skewed since there is nothing truely in AMD's arsenault that can compete will the 2011-v3 i7's as of yet.

(average 8350 PPD was only 30-40k PPD vs 4790k was at 50-65k PPD vs 5930k is chomping away @ 70-85k PPD - still tweaking to see 95-100k PPD, which I can see as being possible)

I appreciate the reply, thank you smile.gif

I'd like to see a sub $300 , 12 core at about 100 watts - with the ipc of devil's canyon and the clockspeeds of the current FX's devil.gif ( I can dream ,can't I? )

OT - I folded for a while with a c2 965 @ 4 ghz pushing 4870X2's in quadfire , world's most inefficient folding rig! lol
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