Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [arstechnica] AMD confirms 4GB limit for first HBM graphics card
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[arstechnica] AMD confirms 4GB limit for first HBM graphics card - Page 4  

post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Bandwidth is much higher but that doesn't change the capacity. Once this hits the vram wall it will bite the dust just like every other card. Titan X will be better if a game needs more vram since it can go without swapping until the huge 12GB is full. 8GB is however also a lot even for 4K since I have it and I only have 4GB.

Extra bandwidth doesn't make up for capacity the 970 has 4GB and you can use it all still people say it's 3,5 While it's not just because the last 0,5GB is as slow as swapping to ram.

This is why I will be disappointed if AMD truly are limited to 4GB with first gen HBM, though it doesn't seem to bother nVidia enthusiasts that the 970 is a 3.5+0.5 card.
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Please quote the relevant text.

Why don't you? I'm tired of doing all the leg work for people who are too lazy to do their own research and are so ignorant they think that a datasheet description is the entire data sheet. rolleyes.gif

So by all means, please show me your skills and how there is no limitation and that by simply adding another chip will expand the bus by 1024-bits, so that by simply by adding 32 of them (actually 128 of them ... 32 stacks of 4 chips), you can get a 32,768-bit bus and 32GB of memory.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 5/21/15 at 10:26am
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Why don't you? I'm tired of doing all the leg work for people who are too lazy to do their own research and are so ignorant they think that a datasheet description is the entire data sheet. rolleyes.gif

Then I'll do it when I wake up. See my edit for clarification on what time it is.
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

This is why I will be disappointed if AMD truly are limited to 4GB with first gen HBM, though it doesn't seem to bother nVidia enthusiasts that the 970 is a 3.5+0.5 card.

It bothered me enough to return mine, it doesn't bother some people because the price/performance for the 970 is very good. The same could be true with the fiji HBM card, if the price/performance is there it will sell really well, if it's not people will wait for the 980 Ti or hold off til gen2 of HBM cards come out.

The key here is price/performance, which is not typical for a high end card, but I think that is where AMD has found themselves.
See Pee Yoo
(17 items)
 
Lian Mi
(12 items)
 
Craptop
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k asrock extreme4 980ti corsair vengeance  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial m3 seagate green lg dvdrw Noctua D14 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
win 7 64bit 2 x 1920 x 1080p (ASUS and LG) xl2420te ocz zx 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
haf bx g600 / / Roccat Savu Puretrak Talent Soundblaster Z 
Audio
sennheiser hd558 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
celereon g1610 g1 sniper m3 parema seagate barracuda 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
dvdrw windows vista vizio 3d tv rosewill green 530 
CaseMouse
lian li pc v354b logitech g300 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
4810MQ GTX 870M samsung evo  Windows 8.1 
Other
Sager 8728 
  hide details  
See Pee Yoo
(17 items)
 
Lian Mi
(12 items)
 
Craptop
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500k asrock extreme4 980ti corsair vengeance  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial m3 seagate green lg dvdrw Noctua D14 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
win 7 64bit 2 x 1920 x 1080p (ASUS and LG) xl2420te ocz zx 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
haf bx g600 / / Roccat Savu Puretrak Talent Soundblaster Z 
Audio
sennheiser hd558 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
celereon g1610 g1 sniper m3 parema seagate barracuda 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
dvdrw windows vista vizio 3d tv rosewill green 530 
CaseMouse
lian li pc v354b logitech g300 
CPUGraphicsHard DriveOS
4810MQ GTX 870M samsung evo  Windows 8.1 
Other
Sager 8728 
  hide details  
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickles View Post

It bothered me enough to return mine, it doesn't bother some people because the price/performance for the 970 is very good. The same could be true with the fiji HBM card, if the price/performance is there it will sell really well, if it's not people will wait for the 980 Ti or hold off til gen2 of HBM cards come out.

The key here is price/performance, which is not typical for a high end card, but I think that is where AMD has found themselves.

Assuming AMD need to recover the costs of R&D at least I don't think these cards will be cheap.
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Assuming AMD need to recover the costs of R&D at least I don't think these cards will be cheap.

On this we agree.

And hence AMD's other public statement ... where they don't want to be known as "The cheaper solution".
post #37 of 50
Man there's some extreme fanboys on this site.. They spend most of their time in the threads of brands they obviously have no interest in.
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Why don't you? I'm tired of doing all the leg work for people who are too lazy to do their own research and are so ignorant they think that a datasheet description is the entire data sheet. rolleyes.gif

So by all means, please show me your skills and how there is no limitation and that by simply adding another chip will expand the bus by 1024-bits, so that by simply by adding 32 of them (8 stacks of 4), you can get a 32,768-bit bus.
Quote:
2 Features
· 2n prefetch architecture with 256 bits per memory read and write access
· BL = 2 and 4
· 128 DQ width + Optional ECC pin support/channel
· Differential clock inputs (CK_t/CK_c)
· DDR commands entered on each positive CK_t, CK_c edge. Row Activate commands require two
cycles. All other commands are one cycle command.
· Semi-independent Row & Column Command Interfaces allowing Activates/Precharges to be
issued in parallel with Read/Writes.
· Data referenced to strobes RDQS_t/RDQS_c and WDQS_t/WDQS_c. 1 strobe pair per DWORD.
· Up to 8 channels/stack
· 8 or 16 banks per channel; varies by device density/channel
· Bank Grouping supported
· 2K or 4K Bytes per page; varies by device density/channel
· DBIac support configurable via MRS
· Data mask for masking WRITE data per byte
· Self Refresh Modes
· IO voltage 1.2 V
· DRAM core voltage 1.2 V, independent of IO voltage
· Channel density of 1 Gb to 32 Gb
· Unterminated data/address/cmd/clk interfaces
· Temperature sensor with 3-bit encoded range output

I admit the mistake I made, I am trying to argue that the documentation doesn't state that HBM Gen 1 is limited to 4GB whereas we're actually talking about bus width.

However looking at page 1 of the PDF it says that each channel can be up to 32Gbit, with a maximum of 8 channels/stacks. That leads to 32GB of VRAM, not 4GB. While that doesn't change the bus width of 4096 it does mean that Gen 1 isn't limited to 4GB of VRAM.

But then on page 4 it's shown that it's possible to have 4Gbit channel densities with a width of 256bit. If 8 of these channels/stacks are put on a GPU we're looking at a 2048bit bus. Is this like DDR doubled? Please forgive me, I am really off to sleep now and will read the documentation some more in the morning.
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
post #39 of 50
drum.gif : band.gif Sorry about the noise tongue.gif

are you asleep yet biggrin.gifthumb.gif
Edited by ladcrooks - 5/21/15 at 10:43am
post #40 of 50
It´s pretty simple with HBM1:

- 2Gb dies
- 4 dies per stack
- Each stack x1024 wide

Since Fiji has 4096-bit wide bus there cannot be more than four stacks.
GDDR5 supported clamshell mode (x16 vs x32 per die) which allowed to use twice the amount memory modules, however there is no information if HBM supports clamshell or not. Most likely it is not supported.

Therefore Fiji will be with 4GB of memory unless Hynix has 4Gb dies for HBM in production.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [arstechnica] AMD confirms 4GB limit for first HBM graphics card