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post #1211 of 4441
I just finished my first hard tubing build. It's an HTPC in a Steiger Dynamics LEET case. I expected a steep learning curve with hard tubing, and my choice of case didn't make things easier! I had to make the tightest bend 7 different times!

I used Monsoon PETG tubing (1/2" 5/8") and loved the stuff, along with the cutting and bending kits, and loved those too. I also used free center compression fittings, and I can't say enough bad things about the blasted little doodads. My problems started (more accurately, were discovered) when leak testing, because every single fitting leaked.

- When the loop was completed, I put my air-test gizmo on the res top and pressurized. As soon as it got to 2 psi, I found two loudly hissing leaks. Checking them, I found that the lock collars were cracked, because my bends weren't quite perfect and they were putting stress on the fittings. So, I redid those bends, much better fitting this time around. By the way, when I was first making my bends, I had already cracked a couple of lock collars because I knocked a tube to the floor. By now, I was out of the collars that came with my fittings, so I used some spares I had bought just in case. Apparently the stock collars were acrylic and the replacements were polycarbonate, because I "test-banged" them on my bench before gluing them on and they were unaffected.

- Pressurize again, to 5 psi, and the pressure starts to slowly drop. A little soapy water on each fitting, and they all bubbled up, including the ones I had just replaced! I checked the first fitting, right out of the pump, and it was missing the compression gasket, which somehow got dislodged when I was tubing up the connection. This prompted me to re-check every fitting, and I found two more missing gaskets, which I replaced -- good thing there are plenty extra. The originals were all in the floor of the case, where I hadn't spotted them because they're black and so is the case. So, chalk this batch of leaks to user error. The LEET case is very tight, and it's very easy to inadvertently knock the little gaskets off when maneuvering the tubes to screw on the fittings.

- With the missing gaskets replaced, some of those same links were still bubbling up with the air test, along with all the others, which were now re-snugged, and had been checked for o-rings and gaskets. So, I fully removed one of the tubes to inspect it and the fitting more closely, and the lock collar came right off!! The glue had either failed or not cured properly. By the way, this explained the rest of the failures, all the lock collars were loose. I had read somewhere that the shelf life of the glue is one year, so I assumed that, since I had received old lock collars from ppcs, I might have received some old glue as well, so I chucked the glue I had in use and opened a new one. I took the opportunity to get rid of all the original collars and replaced them with the good ones. This time, apparently the glue held, because I couldn't tear the re-glued collars off no matter how hard I pulled.

Finally, time to fill with water and do a wet leak test. Well, that didn't work either. My D5 pump is dead -- it just emits a faint hum, but doesn't move any fluid. Now it's down to waiting for a new pump to arrive. In the meantime, the loop remains full of distilled water, and, so far no new leaks.

I loved the soft tubing free center fittings and had used them in both my previous watercooled rigs. That, plus the idea of the added safety provided by the lock collar, were my reasons for going with them. But after all my adventures, I think they are actually a bad idea. I experienced every possible way they can fail, and there are just too many: the gaskets are finicky; the lock collars are temperamental; there is close to zero tolerance for bends that are off by a millimeter or so; the stupid glue may or may not work as expected. They look good, and are as beautifully machined and finished as everything Monsoon, but there are just too many potential points and modes of failure. If some products are user-friendly, then these fittings are downright user-hostile.

It is not my intent to bash Geno or Monsoon. I admire Geno's willingness to help customers and stand up for his products, and I love Monsoon products for their innovation, design and quality. But those stupid fittings really need to be taken outside and shot.

I didn't know whether to post this here or open a separate thread, but since this is sort of becoming a de-facto Monsson Products Club I decided to keep it here.
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post #1212 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillaveces View Post

I just finished my first hard tubing build. It's an HTPC in a Steiger Dynamics LEET case. I expected a steep learning curve with hard tubing, and my choice of case didn't make things easier! I had to make the tightest bend 7 different times!

I used Monsoon PETG tubing (1/2" 5/8") and loved the stuff, along with the cutting and bending kits, and loved those too. I also used free center compression fittings, and I can't say enough bad things about the blasted little doodads. My problems started (more accurately, were discovered) when leak testing, because every single fitting leaked.

- When the loop was completed, I put my air-test gizmo on the res top and pressurized. As soon as it got to 2 psi, I found two loudly hissing leaks. Checking them, I found that the lock collars were cracked, because my bends weren't quite perfect and they were putting stress on the fittings. So, I redid those bends, much better fitting this time around. By the way, when I was first making my bends, I had already cracked a couple of lock collars because I knocked a tube to the floor. By now, I was out of the collars that came with my fittings, so I used some spares I had bought just in case. Apparently the stock collars were acrylic and the replacements were polycarbonate, because I "test-banged" them on my bench before gluing them on and they were unaffected.

- Pressurize again, to 5 psi, and the pressure starts to slowly drop. A little soapy water on each fitting, and they all bubbled up, including the ones I had just replaced! I checked the first fitting, right out of the pump, and it was missing the compression gasket, which somehow got dislodged when I was tubing up the connection. This prompted me to re-check every fitting, and I found two more missing gaskets, which I replaced -- good thing there are plenty extra. The originals were all in the floor of the case, where I hadn't spotted them because they're black and so is the case. So, chalk this batch of leaks to user error. The LEET case is very tight, and it's very easy to inadvertently knock the little gaskets off when maneuvering the tubes to screw on the fittings.

- With the missing gaskets replaced, some of those same links were still bubbling up with the air test, along with all the others, which were now re-snugged, and had been checked for o-rings and gaskets. So, I fully removed one of the tubes to inspect it and the fitting more closely, and the lock collar came right off!! The glue had either failed or not cured properly. By the way, this explained the rest of the failures, all the lock collars were loose. I had read somewhere that the shelf life of the glue is one year, so I assumed that, since I had received old lock collars from ppcs, I might have received some old glue as well, so I chucked the glue I had in use and opened a new one. I took the opportunity to get rid of all the original collars and replaced them with the good ones. This time, apparently the glue held, because I couldn't tear the re-glued collars off no matter how hard I pulled.

Finally, time to fill with water and do a wet leak test. Well, that didn't work either. My D5 pump is dead -- it just emits a faint hum, but doesn't move any fluid. Now it's down to waiting for a new pump to arrive. In the meantime, the loop remains full of distilled water, and, so far no new leaks.

I loved the soft tubing free center fittings and had used them in both my previous watercooled rigs. That, plus the idea of the added safety provided by the lock collar, were my reasons for going with them. But after all my adventures, I think they are actually a bad idea. I experienced every possible way they can fail, and there are just too many: the gaskets are finicky; the lock collars are temperamental; there is close to zero tolerance for bends that are off by a millimeter or so; the stupid glue may or may not work as expected. They look good, and are as beautifully machined and finished as everything Monsoon, but there are just too many potential points and modes of failure. If some products are user-friendly, then these fittings are downright user-hostile.

It is not my intent to bash Geno or Monsoon. I admire Geno's willingness to help customers and stand up for his products, and I love Monsoon products for their innovation, design and quality. But those stupid fittings really need to be taken outside and shot.

I didn't know whether to post this here or open a separate thread, but since this is sort of becoming a de-facto Monsson Products Club I decided to keep it here.

Man that sucks, sorry to here that. Glad you got it solved and yes glue and fittings is in my experience never good. Which sucks because I like those fittings especially as they match the reservoir.

However I have had glued fittings, The MMTs version of monsoons free centers (the carbon fiber ones), Well there "Glue" Almost cost me a PC. I wasn't home and the collars busted under the bends pressure 3 of them in one day. I came home to a soaked case with a pool of water in the bottom, luckily they were all lower side fittings, and my PC shut off due to temps. If they had been on the top rad I may have lost everything.

So after tearing the loop apart and checked the other fittings, without fail I was able to easily pull them apart some of them feel apart when removing them! The fittings are in use again today, I took them all apart and jb welded them together with a bunch of JB weld. After doing the intial connection I put JB on a scalpel blade and made a thick build up. Painted the jb black and they have been good, and MMT claims its Aero space glue holding them together, I sure hope not or we are going to have a lot of dead astronauts.

I don't think monsoon makes those though, if you do Geno use better glue. I could write off one falling apart but 3 did in the same day. However the others pulled apart 12 of them in total. The tube was very bad sizing from primochill as it was very hard to put on any compression's however they failed after a month. Since my mod they have worked with the same batch of tube without breaking, gotta love JB smile.gif.

Of course the jb may have failed too if I didn't cake it on. Its hard to explain if you have never seen the fittings inside. There is a ring on the top and a ring on the bottom those rings have a few mms that slides into the carbon fiber ring. What I did is pull them apart put a little jb around the outside of the inner ring and slide them together. Then there is a gap between the inner rings that shows the inside of the carbon fiber I caked that with JB weld until it was level and looks solid piece now. So the JB not only holds them to the carbon but to each other.

There was much better way to make those fittings, however maybe not doable for them. I would have machined the fittings first solid metal all the way through, and then Layed up the rings around the fitting instead of using the carbon as a support.

Another option would have been to machine the compression's all the way except the top ring been reduced shaved like the center the rings then slipped on and the top cover glued. Especially seeing how I have heard a lot of people have the same problem with those fittings falling apart. If you do not get what I mean by this the fitting would be fully functional without the ring or the "Top Cover" it would be a little thicker, but it would not break.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 1/23/16 at 9:44pm
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post #1213 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Snip Snap! (Click to show)
Clear caps would show the wrench flats and the Silver bolts in couplers pumps, they would be a different material one that isn't as durable and in this reservoirs case that could be a problem.

The biggest reason to use plexi sections is the opposite of your logic, you said because the tubes are colored there should be clear caps. The clear caps are for people that use colored fluid, the reason bits power makes them is to match there clear pump tops, and they make that for colored fluid. The MMRS has colored tubes so you dont have to use Colored Fluid as it is generally best to avoid Dyes.

I think you are giving them a bigger market share then they posses AFAIK the bitspower is the only one that offers this, EK, Alphacool, Koolance ECT none of there reservoirs have clear caps either. Bitspower while a market leader in other depts is pretty much in last place when it comes to reservoirs. I haven't seen a build that used a bitspower reservoir in a very long time. They have gaudy mounting systems and are not very attractive.

I also feel the Plexi reservoir top to be gaudy and not attractive as if you have a clear reservoir then a solid colored cap adds contrast, Clear reservoir caps went out with Acrylic cases, bitspower caps came out when clear acrylic cases were a thing that isn't the market anymore. Its like UV green tubing and UV lights everywhere years ago everyone had that, today practically no one does, The clear caps are the same way.

In other news I figured out what to do with the Reservoir for my bench. I am going to use a different bench (that is basically a slightly raised motherboard tray) and mount the reservoir to the actual Wire shelf unit. I will then have 2 couplers facing towards the back, the 2 bottom ones will go down to the rest of the watercooling, the top 2 will have 90s facing up to act as fill ports.

As for the screw holes I am going to try to find the screw size in a grub screw and a spike that will screw to it.
Also @Jiryama I threw a log up since you asked before smile.gif

Ok, awesome! I will definitely go take a look at that. Read about your new bench idea and mounting for the MMRS to an appealing appearance, can't want to see it done and in action!
post #1214 of 4441
Well, I had problems with mu free center fittings too. But the glue works very good! How do you "cure" it?

I use a 2 bucks UV led light from Ebay, I think it has 7 or 10 UV 5mm leds inside, just put it a few centimeter from your glued collar, switch angle after 2-3 minutes and it's solid as a rock - IMPOSSIBLE to take off.
post #1215 of 4441
I've got a UV "mini-oven" for fingernail polish curing since it was very cheap, do you think it could work for the UV glue?
post #1216 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillaveces View Post

When the loop was completed, I put my air-test gizmo on the res top and pressurized.

Glad that you were testing your loop the correct way for leaks....thumb.gif

Your little pressure tester may have possibly saved you a few dollars in water logged hardware...!
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post #1217 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnatural View Post

I've got a UV "mini-oven" for fingernail polish curing since it was very cheap, do you think it could work for the UV glue?

No, that's too weak! I talked to Geno about this earlier. People complained about their glue wasn't cured enough - reason was they used finger nail uv stuff.


Just grab a UV led flashlight from Ebay smile.gif Mine cost 2 bucks and works like a charm. If you want to on the even more safe side, just buy one with more led diodes, think there is some with 25 led diodes for 10 usd smile.gif
post #1218 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucalyptus View Post

No, that's too weak! I talked to Geno about this earlier. People complained about their glue wasn't cured enough - reason was they used finger nail uv stuff.


Just grab a UV led flashlight from Ebay smile.gif Mine cost 2 bucks and works like a charm. If you want to on the even more safe side, just buy one with more led diodes, think there is some with 25 led diodes for 10 usd smile.gif

Ouch! At least I have a friend who needs it for the proper use biggrin.gif

You mean something like this?



Thanks for warning me thumb.gif
post #1219 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucalyptus View Post

Well, I had problems with mu free center fittings too. But the glue works very good! How do you "cure" it?

I use a 2 bucks UV led light from Ebay, I think it has 7 or 10 UV 5mm leds inside, just put it a few centimeter from your glued collar, switch angle after 2-3 minutes and it's solid as a rock - IMPOSSIBLE to take off.

I got this from Amazon, and put the tube/fitting assemblies in there for two minutes. When I saw the failures, the glue was in a gel-like state, and could be scraped off the tube with a fingernail and a paper towel. Maybe the UV light was too weak, or I didn't let the glue cook long enough. With the second batch I did get the expected results.
Edited by jvillaveces - 1/24/16 at 8:22am
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WD Black Kingston HyperX Intel 730 Bitspower D5 upgrade kit 
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core i5 6500 Asus Maximus VIII Gene  EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB SC+ GAMING ACX 2.0+  Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4 DRAM... 
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Seasonic 1050 Watt Gold Steiger Dynamics LEET Chassis 
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post #1220 of 4441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unnatural View Post

Ouch! At least I have a friend who needs it for the proper use biggrin.gif

You mean something like this?



Thanks for warning me thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillaveces View Post

I got this from Amazon, and put the tube/fitting assemblies in there for two minutes. When I saw the failures, the glue was in a gel-like state, and could be scraped off the tube with a fingernail and a paper towel. Maybe the UV light was too weak, or I didn't let the glue cook long enough. With the second batch I did get the expected results.


I got this one. 1 usd, and works like a charm for me smile.gif there is some flashlights with more led diodes, maybe is better, I don't know.

But this one works, with Monsoon glue, collars and tube smile.gif

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