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[Various] Ashes of the Singularity DX12 Benchmarks - Page 214  

post #2131 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post


It could be that the silence from nVIDIA is because they're working on a driver, for DX12, particularly on the Work Distributor portion of the driver. I think nVIDIA has to re-write their entire software scheduler in order to get Async working. I'm not a developer or a programmer. I only understand the hardware engineering side of things. Since there are no White Papers, showing block diagrams of Maxwell 2, I can't see if any changes have been made to the hardware which would allow it to behave more like GCN (the last diagrams I've seen were of changes to the SMM/SMX nothing else).

To me, since nVIDIA refer to the Kepler documentation when speaking on Maxwell, it seems that most of the changes made, Maxwell to Maxwell 2, were in software.

I wonder what would happen if they ran Arkham Knight with a card which doesn't support Async (say Kepler but especially Maxwell), if it behaves the same then you're still stuck at the starting point. If it doesn't behave the same then the issue is likely tied to either the way that benchmark was coded or the Software scheduler used by nVIDIA in their DX12 driver.

If that's the case, then I'm curious what nVidia can accomplish with the Work Distributor being revised/adapted for DX12.
(Assuming there is something being developed right now - just guessing)

Moreover, you mention that Kepler documentation continues to be referenced for the Maxwell/Maxwell 2 GPUs-
Are you suggesting that should things be revised - they would affect Kepler, Maxwell, and Maxwell 2 cards similarly?

I am of course referencing to how AMD has done the best they could with tessellation performance in their recent drivers. Now I know I'm talking apples to oranges here, but it's a question I have.

What exactly can nVidia accomplish on the software level and what are realistic expectations?

@Postal - If we're going to reminisce about old cards, we should talk Matrox haha (look at my Build history for reference).
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post #2132 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digidi View Post

New Questions. What are the Batches meaning? Can sombody also put here the outputfile from Ashes Singularity?

Maybe 980 oder Titan x or fury? Im intrested in the Batches because they corespondend with the fps.

== Hardware Configuration ================================================
GPU: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 8
Physical Memory: 8140 MB
Allocatable Memory: 134217727 MB
==========================================================================


== Configuration =========================================================
API: DirectX 12
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
Glare Quality: High
Shading Samples: 16 million
Terrain Shading Samples: 8 million
Shadow Quality: High
Temporal AA Duration: 6
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Multisample Anti-Aliasing: 1x
Texture Rank : 1
==========================================================================


== Results ===============================================================
BenchMark 0
TestType: Full System Test
== Sub Mark Normal Batch =================================================
Total Time: 60.011837 ms per frame
Avg Framerate: 54.839180 FPS (18.235138 ms)
Weighted Framerate: 54.173260 FPS (18.459291 ms)
CPU frame rate (estimated if not GPU bound): 67.433426 FPS (14.829440 ms)
Percent GPU Bound: 66.996521 %
Driver throughput (Batches per ms): 1688.193115 Batches
Average Batches per frame: 4495.382324
Batches
== Sub Mark Medium Batch =================================================
Total Time: 62.007164 ms per frame
Avg Framerate: 50.913467 FPS (19.641169 ms)
Weighted Framerate: 50.507751 FPS (19.798943 ms)
CPU frame rate (estimated if not GPU bound): 65.788498 FPS (15.200226 ms)
Percent GPU Bound: 89.867798 %
Driver throughput (Batches per ms): 2292.695068 Batches
Average Batches per frame: 7936.875977 Batches

== Sub Mark Heavy Batch =================================================
Total Time: 57.988411 ms per frame
Avg Framerate: 43.939812 FPS (22.758404 ms)
Weighted Framerate: 43.560501 FPS (22.956575 ms)
CPU frame rate (estimated if not GPU bound): 54.549587 FPS (18.331945 ms)
Percent GPU Bound: 95.388588 %
Driver throughput (Batches per ms): 4006.267822 Batches
Average Batches per frame: 20135.652344 Batches

=========================================================================
=========================================================================


Yeah so...looks like you're using high preset so that's what I tested.

normal: 91.7 fps... driver throughput 2968.7, 5412.2

medium: 81.2 fps... driver throughput 3843.7, 8400.7

heavy: 67.8 fps... driver throughput 5729.7, 20722.4

The batches are about the same, my Titan X OC'd and 5820K OC'd has more driver throughput it seems and a higher framerate. It looks like you're more CPU bound than I am. My CPU FPS AVG. is 127.3 fps.

AMD is killing it in DX 12, but NV Maxwell 2 is just such a monster overclocker that it at least evens the playing field in DX 12, even though DX 11 is faster, where 290x and Fury X don't OC very well.
    
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post #2133 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

It will be under DX12, if implemented that way, because the way DX12 works is that you can assign texture streaming to several GPU sources. Therefore under Split frame rendering you can assign one aspect of the frame to receive certain textures and the other side of the frame to receive other textures. You can do the same for compute, copy and other graphic tasks.

Basically the developer decides when to submit work to the GPU (when to draw etc) rather than the driver.

In other words you can have SFR + Combined memory pools if coded that way.

Right, but SFR isn't what allows combined memory pools and you could do AFR + combined memory pools if you wanted to.
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post #2134 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

I would have preferred if AMD had never bought ATi. ATi was highly competitive with nVIDIA. But then again I was biased towards ATi at one point in my life. This bias didn't transfer over to AMD... mostly because AMD promised there would be no lay-offs... shortly after the takeover... lay-offs. Many of my former colleagues were laid off.

There is a degree of bad blood between AMD and I.

Lay offs... did AMD start slashing funding for ATi so early? I'm of the opinion ATi were awesome and that AMD weren't fit to afford funding ATi hence the relative difficulties in product development and marketing we see now. [Insert obligatory 9700 Pro was awesome sentence here]. I'm curious, do you have any idea of how much of ATi actually remains under AMD today? Were you aware of TeraScale/VLIW's development when you left?

I'm unsure of AMD's direct role in this, but Radeon market share/mindshare seems to have taken its first big hit right after ATi were acquired and Nvidia launched Tesla/the 8800 while the 2900XT wasn't ready in time and came out limping. Then AMD/ATi went with their small-die strategy and the Radeon brand never really recovered. I wonder just how much of that was directly AMD's fault and how much was just coincidental timing as Nvidia started doing their whole big-die/CUDA thing.
Edited by Serandur - 9/4/15 at 1:28pm
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post #2135 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Understandable.

How would you feel about AMD reviving the ATi name? Maybe put it on their flagship halo cards? I didn't really comment on ATi in my first reply, because that just leads me back to 3DFX as well and the glory days of the 90s.

.......I miss my CRT!

Oh no, not the aesthetics tongue.gif Call me odd but I like AMD's no frills font with the two simple opposing arrows.

Yeah, 3DFX had it. I think it was the font used and the two tone white or black with yellow of the logo. The box art was always so awesome looking and the product discription was sharp and simple.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #2136 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Lay offs... did AMD start slashing funding for ATi so early? I'm of the opinion ATi were awesome and that AMD weren't fit to afford funding ATi hence the relative difficulties in product development and marketing we see now. [Insert obligatory 9700 Pro was awesome sentence here]. I'm curious, do you have any idea of how much of ATi actually remains under AMD today? Were you aware of TeraScale/ VLIW's development when you left?

I'm unsure of AMD's direct role in this, but Radeon market share/mindshare seems to have taken its first big hit right after ATi were acquired and Nvidia launched Tesla/the 8800 while the 2900XT wasn't ready in time and came out limping. Then AMD/ATi went with their small-die strategy and the Radeon brand never really recovered. I wonder just how much of that was directly AMD's fault and how much was just coincidental timing as Nvidia started doing their whole big-die/CUDA thing.

The market share graph (with its decline) definitely seems to align with the acquisition.
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post #2137 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

I would have preferred if AMD had never bought ATi. ATi was highly competitive with nVIDIA. But then again I was biased towards ATi at one point in my life. This bias didn't transfer over to AMD... mostly because AMD promised there would be no lay-offs... shortly after the takeover... lay-offs. Many of my former colleagues were laid off.

There is a degree of bad blood between AMD and I.

Only one problem, ATi was looking for an out. ATi was going to sell no matter who wanted it. However selling to NVidia would've meant monopoly.
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post #2138 of 2682
Wow, lots more posts here, there is just too many things to respond to so I'll try to answer what I can.

/inconvenient things I'm required to ask or they won't let me post anymore
Regarding screenshots and other info from our game, we appreciate your support but please refrain from disclosing these until after we hit early access. It won't be long now.
/end

Regarding batches, we use the term batches just because we are counting both draw calls and dispatch calls. Dispatch calls are compute shaders, draw calls are normal graphics shaders. Though sometimes everyone calls dispatchs draw calls, they are different so we thought we'd avoid the confusion by calling everything a draw call.

Regarding CPU load balancing on D3D12, that's entirely the applications responsibility. So if you see a case where it’s not load balancing, it’s probably the application not the driver/API. We’ve done some additional tunes to the engine even in the last month and can clearly see usage cases where we can load 8 cores at maybe 90-95% load. Getting to 90% on an 8 core machine makes us really happy. Keeping our application tuned to scale like this definitely on ongoing effort.

Additionally, hitches and stalls are largely the applications responsibility under D3D12. In D3D12, essentially everything that could cause a stall has been removed from the API. For example, the pipeline objects are designed such that the dreaded shader recompiles won’t ever have to happen. We also have precise control over how long a graphics command is queued up. This is pretty important for VR applications.

Also keep in mind that the memory model for D3d12 is completely different the D3D11, at an OS level. I’m not sure if you can honestly compare things like memory load against each other. In D3D12 we have more control over residency and we may, for example, intentionally keep something unused resident so that there is no chance of a micro-stutter if that resource is needed. There is no reliable way to do this in D3D11. Thus, comparing memory residency between the two APIS may not be meaningful, at least not until everyone's had a chance to really tune things for the new paradigm.

Regarding SLI and cross fire situations, yes support is coming. However, those options in the ini file probablly do not do what you think they do, just FYI. Some posters here have been remarkably perceptive on different multi-GPU modes that are coming, and let me just say that we are looking beyond just the standard Crossfire and SLI configurations of today. We think that Multi-GPU situations are an area where D3D12 will really shine. (once we get all the kinks ironed out, of course). I can't promise when this support will be unvieled, but we are commited to doing it right.

Regarding Async compute, a couple of points on this. FIrst, though we are the first D3D12 title, I wouldn't hold us up as the prime example of this feature. There are probably better demonstrations of it. This is a pretty complex topic and to fully understand it will require significant understanding of the particular GPU in question that only an IHV can provide. I certainly wouldn't hold Ashes up as the premier example of this feature.

We actually just chatted with Nvidia about Async Compute, indeed the driver hasn't fully implemented it yet, but it appeared like it was. We are working closely with them as they fully implement Async Compute. We'll keep everyone posted as we learn more.

Also, we are pleased that D3D12 support on Ashes should be functional on Intel hardware relatively soon, (actually, it's functional now it's just a matter of getting the right driver out to the public).

Thanks!
post #2139 of 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kollock View Post


We actually just chatted with Nvidia about Async Compute, indeed the driver hasn't fully implemented it yet, but it appeared like it was. We are working closely with them as they fully implement Async Compute. We'll keep everyone posted as we learn more.

This should get interesting.
    
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post #2140 of 2682
So it seems that Async Compute was indeed a driver problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

This should get interesting.
So i guess Maxwell 2 has hardware Async compute ?
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Various] Ashes of the Singularity DX12 Benchmarks