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Skylake Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1105

post #11041 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memmento Mori View Post

...something is wrong with it, as the Aida 64 stress test fails after some seconds with the note that a harware problem the reason is. Will play a little bit with it more and try various combinations you wrote me before, but i will test it on Autovoltage on the CPU (core, SA, IO) so we can find the problem and then ill ry to push lower the volts, as it produces more heat and in summer it will be a problem (overheating).
...

Hardware problem? Nothing more? That's AIda64 reporting the error and not Windows, right?

Starting from the last two screen shots you posted:
Try:
Set XMP on.
Set RAM timings to T2-15-17-17-39. everything else on [Auto]

Intel Virtualization Tech -> [Disabled]

Yes, definitely set CPU, SA and IO Voltages back to [Auto] while doing this testing. Their absolute values aren't as important as the relationship to each other, so allow them to float.

Also set CPU Core / GT Voltage Mode to [Auto]. The [Adaptive] setting on some boards causes more instability than [Auto].

For now, make sure your LLC is set to [Mode 1].

If you want to set a max on your CPU Voltage for testing, set CPU Core / GT Voltage Mode to [Override]. This will raise your idle Voltage, but keep your max Voltage down. Setting [Mode 1] may still allow max CPU Voltage to creep over your max, but not by much.

If these settings don't work together, go back to the settings you originally posted, and test making just one change at a time until you find out what's making it choke.

I'm curious:
Is your motherboard/RAM combination listed by either manufacturer?
What is the max difference between hottest and coolest core when stress testing?

Good luck. thumb.gif
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post #11042 of 11218
The skylake bending thing was mostly exaggerated right? It only happened during shipping or something if I remember correctly?

I ask because I have a Thermalright cooler with the adjustable pressure mount that ranges from 40lbs to 70lbs. I have it set to 40, I read Intel's spec is 50. Think there would be any danger going over 50? I have the Thermalright skylake shim that they released to prevent bending.

I am also going to delid next week, which seems like it would make the IHS sit a tiny bit lower, lowering the pressure slightly.

I'm currently trying to get 4.6 stable, but 1.312v isn't quite enough and my temps are in the low 90s when running P95.
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post #11043 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle Box View Post

Hardware problem? Nothing more? That's AIda64 reporting the error and not Windows, right?

Starting from the last two screen shots you posted:
Try:
Set XMP on.
Set RAM timings to T2-15-17-17-39. everything else on [Auto]

Intel Virtualization Tech -> [Disabled]

Yes, definitely set CPU, SA and IO Voltages back to [Auto] while doing this testing. Their absolute values aren't as important as the relationship to each other, so allow them to float.

Also set CPU Core / GT Voltage Mode to [Auto]. The [Adaptive] setting on some boards causes more instability than [Auto].

For now, make sure your LLC is set to [Mode 1].

If you want to set a max on your CPU Voltage for testing, set CPU Core / GT Voltage Mode to [Override]. This will raise your idle Voltage, but keep your max Voltage down. Setting [Mode 1] may still allow max CPU Voltage to creep over your max, but not by much.

If these settings don't work together, go back to the settings you originally posted, and test making just one change at a time until you find out what's making it choke.

I'm curious:
Is your motherboard/RAM combination listed by either manufacturer?
What is the max difference between hottest and coolest core when stress testing?

Good luck. thumb.gif

Thanks again for you interest,

Is your motherboard/RAM combination listed by either manufacturer? Corsair CMD16GX4M4B2133C10 DDR4 2133 2133 Micron 1.35V SS 4GB √ √ √ so yes it is, this is a copy from the offical MSI site spec....

What is the max difference between hottest and coolest core when stress testing? idk each core, but the package temp was on 1,395V on a x264 test low 58 C, max 74 C (after a whole night )and idle 32 C. But its with 23 C room temperature, in sommer it will be up to 10 C more....

Next i tryed just the whole settings you wrote down, but it failed in Aida64.

I have a printscreen from other testing how it looks like when the stress test fails, actually these are the settings before your post....




Next I would like to know what you mean with LLC? The settings on the following picture?


Edited by Memmento Mori - 4/20/17 at 10:42am
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post #11044 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memmento Mori View Post

Thanks again for you interest,

Is your motherboard/RAM combination listed by either manufacturer? Corsair CMD16GX4M4B2133C10 DDR4 2133 2133 Micron 1.35V SS 4GB √ √ √ so yes it is, this is a copy from the offical MSI site spec....

What is the max difference between hottest and coolest core when stress testing? idk each core, but the package temp was on 1,395V on a x264 test low 58 C, max 74 C (after a whole night )and idle 32 C. But its with 23 C room temperature, in sommer it will be up to 10 C more....

Next i tryed just the whole settings you wrote down, but it failed in Aida64.

I have a printscreen from other testing how it looks like when the stress test fails, actually these are the settings before your post....
...

Next I would like to know what you mean with LLC? The settings on the following picture?
...

LLC (Load Line Calibration) is a way to stabilize the motherboard's voltage delivery to the CPU under load. It's there to prevent VDroop (Voltage Drop) when the CPU goes from light-load to full-load situations. It can help keep your system from crashing due to VDroop while you're experimenting with settings. Most commonly used by people undervolting their systems. Different boards call it different things and have different levels. Your board has just 2 settings [Off, Mode 1]. My z270 Titanium has 8 modes and all but one are more aggressive than yours. Some people think LLC can cause Voltage spikes, but the circuitry (capacitors) on any mid to high level board makes that highly unlikely. I found my MSI M7 was most stable when running Mode 1 no matter what CPU Voltage mode I was running. It seemed to cut the down swings when using adaptive mode. YMMV.

If you aren't using your motherboard's integrated GPU (IntegratedGraphicsProcessor, IntegratedGraphicsDevice, etc..) you don't need need to set anything concerning GT. Why MSI calls it 'GT', I don't know. If you aren't using the IGP, disable it in Windows. Windows keeps installing it and trying to drive it on HDMI, despite the fact that it's not attached. -edit

I asked about your per core temps because some CPUs that have 10 degree difference in temps under full power when overclocking seem more prone to dropping cores or show random errors during testing. HWiNFO64 sensors will show per-core temps. They may not be absolutely correct, but will show if a core is hot or lazy. I usually go with less core overclocking and more BCLK overclocking on such chips (after trying a cooler reseat). Again, YMMV.

I'm using my stupid MacBook Pro and can't read your AIDA64 screencap at the moment.

You may have already hit your memory's max settings. Since your memory was listed as compatible, the standard and XMP settings should be relatively amenable to speed increases with minimal main timing changes. I have similar memory and can run it up to 3100MHz. Looks like yours doesn't respond well to that. Yours is quick at 2133. Maybe it's got non-standard timings to make it so. You'll need to learn a bit more and experiment with Advanced DRAM Configurations yourself. Some MSI board BIOSs have a place to select DRAM Chip Type [Hynix, Samsung, etc..] this might help...?

FWIW, you may wish to also run other testing/benchmarking software with HWiNFO64 in the background to get an idea of what's causing the crashes. For example, from experience, I know that if Geekbench bombs on SQLlite, it's due to a low VCore, etc...

The fact that you aren't offending Windows is a good sign. I'd set all memory settings back to stock and see if it makes it through AIDA with all the other settings as changed and work forward again from there.
Edited by Beagle Box - 4/20/17 at 10:00am
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post #11045 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle Box View Post

LLC (Load Line Calibration) is a way to stabilize the motherboard's voltage delivery to the CPU under load. It's there to prevent VDroop (Voltage Drop) when the CPU goes from light-load to full-load situations. It can help keep your system from crashing due to VDroop while you're experimenting with settings. Most commonly used by people undervolting their systems. Different boards call it different things and have different levels. Your board has just 2 settings [Off, Mode 1]. My z270 Titanium has 8 modes and all but one are more aggressive than yours. Some people think LLC can cause Voltage spikes, but the circuitry (capacitors) on any mid to high level board makes that highly unlikely. I found my MSI M7 was most stable when running Mode 1 no matter what CPU Voltage mode I was running. It seemed to cut the down swings when using adaptive mode. YMMV.

Thanks again for the informations/explanations and advices/ideas.

The last Aida prinscreen is in bad quality, and it is my fault, sorr for that, i edited it but its not much better. Anyway i found an older printscreen whre i passed 60 rounds on x264 bench:




I used there the comand center from MSI, but after experimenting with the DDR OC o decide to uninstall it, as it was destabilizing the system... after uninstall it was all ok... There are also lower temps as my previous statment wasnt accurate ( bad memory of mine frown.gif and i was at work so could not check it), but yes it exactly is the case you stated. 1 core is lazy and the difference is 12 degrees frown.gif

Ill go try some other settings today and let you know smile.gif

Btw if i have the feeling that the windows is not reacting as it should i set all setings back to normal and if the stress test fails ill just clone the windows back from a clone i made after a fresh reinstal smile.gif

Ty again smile.gif
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post #11046 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memmento Mori View Post

Thanks again for the informations/explanations and advices/ideas.

The last Aida prinscreen is in bad quality, and it is my fault, sorr for that, i edited it but its not much better. Anyway i found an older printscreen whre i passed 60 rounds on x264 bench:
...

I used there the comand center from MSI, but after experimenting with the DDR OC o decide to uninstall it, as it was destabilizing the system... after uninstall it was all ok... There are also lower temps as my previous statment wasnt accurate ( bad memory of mine frown.gif and i was at work so could not check it), but yes it exactly is the case you stated. 1 core is lazy and the difference is 12 degrees frown.gif

Ill go try some other settings today and let you know smile.gif

Btw if i have the feeling that the windows is not reacting as it should i set all setings back to normal and if the stress test fails ill just clone the windows back from a clone i made after a fresh reinstal smile.gif

Ty again smile.gif

12 degrees is outside Intel specs (I think), at least at stock speeds.

Contrary to popular lore, some CPUs exhibit higher levels of efficiency with a Ring Ratio above the usual 38-40, depending on the CPU ratio and Base clock. You should look for an overclock BCLK, CPU ratio, Ring ratio that gets you top performance and keeps that temp difference down under 10 degrees. I had one setting on a problem i7-6700 with a hot #2 core that ran strangely fast and cool @ 4.85 GHz with a BCLK of 133. It probably heated the uncore a bit and the temperature differences had less effect? I actually have no idea why headscratch.gif , but it was great at those settings. Don't go too far with BCLK, though. It can affect RAM stability.

I agree about CC. Cool idea, but not trustworthy. I can give you an idea of what combos may work, though. I installed Command Center for a time - ended up just changing some MOBO lighting or something and uninstalled every bit.

If you recently installed the latest Windows update, then Windows probably isn't stable either way. skull.gif
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post #11047 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle Box View Post

12 degrees is outside Intel specs (I think), at least at stock speeds.

Contrary to popular lore, some CPUs exhibit higher levels of efficiency with a Ring Ratio above the usual 38-40, depending on the CPU ratio and Base clock. You should look for an overclock BCLK, CPU ratio, Ring ratio that gets you top performance and keeps that temp difference down under 10 degrees. I had one setting on a problem i7-6700 with a hot #2 core that ran strangely fast and cool @ 4.85 GHz with a BCLK of 133. It probably heated the uncore a bit and the temperature differences had less effect? I actually have no idea why headscratch.gif , but it was great at those settings. Don't go too far with BCLK, though. It can affect RAM stability.

I agree about CC. Cool idea, but not trustworthy. I can give you an idea of what combos may work, though. I installed Command Center for a time - ended up just changing some MOBO lighting or something and uninstalled every bit.

If you recently installed the latest Windows update, then Windows probably isn't stable either way. skull.gif

well, the system looks stable on a 4,6 Ghz if I dont touch the RAM settings. As i had not much time last days i got confused what settings i tried and which not, so i will try to probably clone again the windows to be sure it is not the windows. Should I try to avoid the last updates of windows? Have you a date from which I should "not install" the updates?

Next to the 12 degrees difference in the core temps, its interesting that it made 60 rounds in x264, 10 rounds of real bench without crashing. But if I touch the Ram settings i get issues....

I will also try the BCLK way to achieve the 4,6 Ghz. Lets see, ill let you know, Im looking forward to test it during the weekend.....

Ty for your interest and help!
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post #11048 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memmento Mori View Post

well, the system looks stable on a 4,6 Ghz if I dont touch the RAM settings. As i had not much time last days i got confused what settings i tried and which not, so i will try to probably clone again the windows to be sure it is not the windows. Should I try to avoid the last updates of windows? Have you a date from which I should "not install" the updates?

Next to the 12 degrees difference in the core temps, its interesting that it made 60 rounds in x264, 10 rounds of real bench without crashing. But if I touch the Ram settings i get issues....

I will also try the BCLK way to achieve the 4,6 Ghz. Lets see, ill let you know, Im looking forward to test it during the weekend.....

Ty for your interest and help!

You might have been a bit quick with the gratitude... redface.gif

I have something else for you to try. Or rather, you should completely forget something I mentioned earlier. I upgraded some RAM last night in one of my lesser machines with some Corsair DDR4 3200. They absolutely would not run with a DRAM ref of 100MHZ above 2400. DRAM Ref Clock had to be set at 133MHZ to boot normally. Don't know why. Yours may be the same. Forget 100MHz! Run @ 133 and see if your memory behaves better.

My apologies for the bad advice. doh.gif

As far as the latest Windows update goes, the problems seem to be associated with the Creators Update. Complaints can be found scattered about in multiple Windows threads here. I've been having mouse and wifi adapter problems since installing it. I'm one of those people who disable everything, but I'm still having issues. You'll need to peruse those threads and decide for yourself.
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post #11049 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle Box View Post

You might have been a bit quick with the gratitude... redface.gif

I have something else for you to try. Or rather, you should completely forget something I mentioned earlier. I upgraded some RAM last night in one of my lesser machines with some Corsair DDR4 3200. They absolutely would not run with a DRAM ref of 100MHZ above 2400. DRAM Ref Clock had to be set at 133MHZ to boot normally. Don't know why. Yours may be the same. Forget 100MHz! Run @ 133 and see if your memory behaves better.

My apologies for the bad advice. doh.gif

As far as the latest Windows update goes, the problems seem to be associated with the Creators Update. Complaints can be found scattered about in multiple Windows threads here. I've been having mouse and wifi adapter problems since installing it. I'm one of those people who disable everything, but I'm still having issues. You'll need to peruse those threads and decide for yourself.

well no big deal...

im now back on the 2666 Mhz, Aida works stable 50 mins, noting, no error, no hardware failure...

If i go with 2933 Mhz ill get harware failure right in the same second... i dont get it...axesmiley.pngaxesmiley.png
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post #11050 of 11218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memmento Mori View Post

well no big deal...

im now back on the 2666 Mhz, Aida works stable 50 mins, noting, no error, no hardware failure...

If i go with 2933 Mhz ill get harware failure right in the same second... i dont get it...axesmiley.pngaxesmiley.png

What about 2799? Maybe that's the point you'll have to loosen timings a bit? Or set to 2799 and all timings to [auto] and see what timings the BIOS gives you. And then you can use those to go for 2933?
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