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Skylake Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 279

post #2781 of 11361
Skylake Data Sheet Vol 1 -


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post #2782 of 11361
Thanks a lot for the replies - as far as my use of this computer...

The PC is on for 2-3 hours a day during the week and maybe 4-5 hours during the weekend. About half of that time is gaming. This PC is used for nothing more than web browsing and gaming (and maybe some other day to day tasks like Microsoft Office). As you can see, compared to most people here I am probably considered to be a VERY light user. Quite frankly, my build is very overkill for what I use my PC for, but I have always wanted to build a nice desktop and thought it would be fun to do so. I don't need to overclock my CPU by any means, but I figure I bought the overclockable chip so why not see what it can do?

On the other hand I probably will keep this desktop for 5+ years (who knows maybe I will replace the CPU and GPU before then, but maybe not). The future is very unknown, so I don't want to push voltages that will cause my CPU to go bad in the next few years. With that being said, if Intel is saying up to 1.45V is safe and my PC use is very light as seen above then I can't imagine that running 4.8GHz in that 1.4ish range will cause any noticeable degradation before the CPU is obsolete - but I am totally new to all this so I can't say anything for sure.
    
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post #2783 of 11361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC268 View Post

Thanks a lot for the replies - as far as my use of this computer...

The PC is on for 2-3 hours a day during the week and maybe 4-5 hours during the weekend. About half of that time is gaming. This PC is used for nothing more than web browsing and gaming (and maybe some other day to day tasks like Microsoft Office). As you can see, compared to most people here I am probably considered to be a VERY light user. Quite frankly, my build is very overkill for what I use my PC for, but I have always wanted to build a nice desktop and thought it would be fun to do so. I don't need to overclock my CPU by any means, but I figure I bought the overclockable chip so why not see what it can do?

On the other hand I probably will keep this desktop for 5+ years (who knows maybe I will replace the CPU and GPU before then, but maybe not). The future is very unknown, so I don't want to push voltages that will cause my CPU to go bad in the next few years. With that being said, if Intel is saying up to 1.45V is safe and my PC use is very light as seen above then I can't imagine that running 4.8GHz in that 1.4ish range will cause any noticeable degradation before the CPU is obsolete - but I am totally new to all this so I can't say anything for sure.

If you're a light user, then even if you degrade you'll be fine. Degrade, back down 2 multipliers. None of us have owned a Skylake chip for 5 years so I don't know, and I don't think anybody here knows.

 

I guess it's up to your risk tolerance. If you're generally a risk-averse guy, maybe you can do 1.35v. Reason being, you know what you will do with your computer now more than what you will do with it 5 years from now. Now you know you don't need the speed, but you forsee that the CPU will stick around a long time, then maybe it's best to be safer. Years down the line things may change and you might find yourself needing more CPU power. But that's down the line. If you degrade and back down 2 multipliers later, you've used up when the CPU was good, on a period of time when you don't need it to be good.

 

However on the other hand, the differences are small objectively speaking, if we step away from the frequency charts and just look at differences in performance.

 

If you know what I mean. 5 years is such a long time though, I wonder if it makes more sense to do two cheaper builds, one now, one 2,3,4 years down the line instead of one pricier Skylake build.

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post #2784 of 11361
Yea thanks for the feedback Darkwizzie. Maybe I will stick with the 4.6GHz at 1.30V - that is still a significant overclock. I am failing tests at 1.4V at 4.8GHz right off the bat. I am getting I guess what you call Vdroop? So in testing it is at like 1.38 or 1.39 vs 1.40...I can't seem to find an LLC setting in my MSI Bios. There is a Vdroop setting - either Auto or Enhanced 100%...but not seeing an LLC setting.

Anyways...if the performance different between 4.6 and 4.8GHz is small then I don't see any point in going up to that 4.8 mark. Now I may be able to do 4.7GHz at say 1.325V or something which may be worth it - but I will have to see.
Edited by CC268 - 10/15/15 at 8:48pm
    
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post #2785 of 11361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Funnily enough, RAM speed seems way more important than L3 cache speed for the game benchmarks that scale from either or both. Also, many games benefit from increased L3, L4 cache amounts - it's clear that it matters to some degree and the bandwidth gained from using l3/l4 instead of RAM improves performance, but a 50% RAM performance gain seems to show up on the radar faster and more often than a 15% gain in L3 cache performance does. I'd guess because it's more likely that if the data is in l3 cache already, it's pretty much "fast enough" (~300GB/s) but some tasks spend a lot of time waiting for RAM. (~8-50GB/s)

If you would like to present reproducable benchmarks showing significant benefit from overclocking cache and specifically the programs/situations that it matters for, that would be good data for everyone here. I've shown substantial results for RAM but nothing yet for L3 cache clocks in meaningful programs. This stuff isn't really made up either, a bunch of people did tests in the last what, 20k posts of darkwizzie's haswell and skylake threads.

We openly invite people to attack the info in the OP so that it can be iterated and improved upon, that's the entire point of the thread - go ahead, bring the data
Very very difficult to answer at the moment but since the stock VID of the CPU's is consistently around 1.3, it can't be that harmful i think. My CPU will try to use 1.32v at 4ghz and 1.42v at 4.2ghz out of the box - if that's harmful within the warranty period (3 years of super intensive usage) then intel and/or asus messed up badly.

.
blinksmiley.gif
Bring data? I just did from one of a very few quality ram AND cache throughput measurements. Maybe you should read it? Or better yet, try it. Anyway, "believe" what you want.
Have you tried a non-branched decompression or two? Maybe a Nakamichi/Oniyanma type? Anytime a block is stacked into ram the transport depends on the cache / ram bus... and inpacts IPC (instructions per clock). Increase one and not the other... well you seem smart enough to figure it out.
Do a throughput measurement that uses more than 20% available ram at significantly different cache clocks... only if your ram OC can survive Google StressAppTest (linux mint OS) and the cache/ram survives HCI Memtest to >500% (windows).
"Attack the data" in the OP? C'mon. Would be pointless for "believers".
Food for thought:
The data in the OP states: only 3DMark benefited from increased cache speed... a combined gpu/cpu/ram benchmark. 3dmk11 even more so - in fact all the FM video card benchmarks are impacted by cpu cache and ram frequency. Catzilla the same. If your games use lots of vram.. check your pagefile and consider how it is filled. thumb.gif
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post #2786 of 11361
Quote:
Bring data? I just did from one of a very few quality ram AND cache throughput measurements. Maybe you should read it? Or better yet, try it.

I've done fairly extensive RAM and cache benchmarks as well as talked about cache speeds, amounts and such. I know the numbers. The question isn't what the numbers are - it's if improving the numbers helps. If it does help, where does it help? How much does it help?

The data in the OP isn't opinion, it's testing results. You're free to post your own test results. If it contradicts with OP in any way, i'm sure it will be looked over.
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post #2787 of 11361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post


blinksmiley.gif
Bring data? I just did from one of a very few quality ram AND cache throughput measurements. Maybe you should read it? Or better yet, try it. Anyway, "believe" what you want.
Have you tried a non-branched decompression or two? Maybe a Nakamichi/Oniyanma type? Anytime a block is stacked into ram the transport depends on the cache / ram bus... and inpacts IPC (instructions per clock). Increase one and not the other... well you seem smart enough to figure it out.
Do a throughput measurement that uses more than 20% available ram at significantly different cache clocks... only if your ram OC can survive Google StressAppTest (linux mint OS) and the cache/ram survives HCI Memtest to >500% (windows).
"Attack the data" in the OP? C'mon. Would be pointless for "believers".
Food for thought:
The data in the OP states: only 3DMark benefited from increased cache speed... a combined gpu/cpu/ram benchmark. 3dmk11 even more so - in fact all the FM video card benchmarks are impacted by cpu cache and ram frequency. Catzilla the same. If your games use lots of vram.. check your pagefile and consider how it is filled. thumb.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post
 

Well, it's a dogma I helped create around the interwebs. I vaguely remember seeing this one benchmark.

 

So.

 

How do you propose I test this?

-> Referencing real world tests


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/15/15 at 9:02pm
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post #2788 of 11361
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC268 View Post

~
~
Anyways...if the performance different between 4.6 and 4.8GHz is small then I don't see any point in going up to that 4.8 mark. Now I may be able to do 4.7GHz at say 1.325V or something which may be worth it - but I will have to see.

with 4GHz baseline;

different between 4.6 and 4.8GHz = 5%
different between 4.6 and 4.7GHz = 2.5%
post #2789 of 11361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I've done fairly extensive RAM and cache benchmarks as well as talked about cache speeds, amounts and such. I know the numbers. The question isn't what the numbers are - it's if improving the numbers helps. If it does help, where does it help? How much does it help?

The data in the OP isn't opinion, it's testing results. You're free to post your own test results. If it contradicts with OP in any way, i'm sure it will be looked over.

Another "Cache Frequency Doesn't Matter" opinion with benchmarks;

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/450468-in-depth-skylake-overclocking-guide-from-overclocknet/
post #2790 of 11361
Hmm...5% is fairly big...what the seen real world difference is I'm not sure. I guess I'd rather be on the cautious side since I don't know how long I may or may not have the CPU. Certainly would want to to last longer than 3 years.

Bit off topic but I guess my MSI M7 motherboard doesn't have LLC! Suprising...
Edited by CC268 - 10/15/15 at 9:10pm
    
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5-6600K ASUS MAXIMUS VIII Hero MSI GeForce GTX 980TI  Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 250GB WD Caviar Blue 1TB NZXT Kraken X61  NZXT Kraken X41 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
NZXT Kraken G10 NZXT Grid V2 Fractal Design Venturi HF-14 Fans (140mm) Windows 10 Home 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS MX279H Corsair K70 RGB EVGA SuperNova G2 850W Fractal Design Define S w/ Window 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Mionix Avior 7000 Glorious PC Gaming XXL Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 AKG K612 PRO 
AudioAudioOther
Antion Audio ModMic FiiO E10K USB DAC CableMod E-Series G2/P2 Cable Kit 
  hide details  
Reply
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