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Skylake Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 282

post #2811 of 11360
Going to just 4.5 from stock 4.2 made a massive difference for me in my physics games, and added 1000 points even to my firestrike physics score smile.gif
post #2812 of 11360
There also comes a point where the returns do not warrant the OC - unless your crazy, no care in the world, mmm! Does sound like me sometimes tongue.gif
post #2813 of 11360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

Cahe clock does affect performance (period).

Nobody actually means to say cache clock literally does not impact performance in any way, shape, or form.

yeah, I have too. And posted a test result that measures ram/cache performance at the same core clock. The data in the OP is fine, but really does not directly compare apples with apples (redface.gif). Comparing performance numbers at different core frequencies skews the results.

I had to lower the cache by an entire ghz to hold down the margin of error. I don't understand how that skews results. How much performance would I lose in something if I lost 100mhz core vs if I lost 1000mhz cache?

 For 95% of real world uses a core OC of 4.8 is no different from 4.4, unless you are holding a stopwatch while opening your browser or whatever.
For you, 95% of uses are probably not CPU bound. If I'm dying for more GPU performance instead of CPU performance, I'd be making a graphics card overclocking thread.
 If you want to get the max performance from any core OC, run the highest (stable) cache along with it. This is OCN right?

There's the 'could conceivably make a difference' and the 'not-even-close' category. That's why very few people tweak their tertiary timings. If I do a cache benchmark, sure it will make a difference, just like how if I did a ram benchmark, all a sudden ram speed is super important.

 

The guide clearly states that cache overclocking is in the cards and is generally not a problem to overclock.

 

 

Do you have some test that is more representative of what a person might actually run on their CPU day to day which scales quite a bit better than the tests I've had to go through? I'm hoping for a straight answer to that question this time. If the answer is no, then you're left with arguing about the ramifications of the dogma instead of the validity of the dogma itself.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/16/15 at 9:05am
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post #2814 of 11360
True - and no else is barking about cache on other sites thumb.gif

from a good OC guide source -

Skylake Overclocking – Voltage Scaling

Both, 6600K and 6700K have a very high overclocking potential. Even though the die size is smaller than Haswell, the CPUs don’t have temperature issues on high load. While temperature is something you can compensate with a good cooling solution or delidding, you have no influence on the individual chip quality.

I tested my 6700K in 100 MHz steps from 4100 MHz to 4700 MHz to see how much additional voltage you need from step to step. Each step was tested by 1h of Prime95 with 1344K FFT. I tested in 5 mV steps to be sure this is the lowest voltage I could reach with my chip. The cache frequency was always at 4100 MHz.

Not here to say right and wrong , but other reviews, they do not even mention it thumb.gif
Edited by ladcrooks - 10/16/15 at 8:28am
post #2815 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladcrooks View Post

True - and no else is barking about cache on other sites thumb.gif

from a good OC guide source -

Skylake Overclocking – Voltage Scaling

Both, 6600K and 6700K have a very high overclocking potential. Even though the die size is smaller than Haswell, the CPUs don’t have temperature issues on high load. While temperature is something you can compensate with a good cooling solution or delidding, you have no influence on the individual chip quality.

I tested my 6700K in 100 MHz steps from 4100 MHz to 4700 MHz to see how much additional voltage you need from step to step. Each step was tested by 1h of Prime95 with 1344K FFT. I tested in 5 mV steps to be sure this is the lowest voltage I could reach with my chip. The cache frequency was always at 4100 MHz.

Not here to say right and wrong , but other reviews, they do not even mention it thumb.gif

Yup - der8auer's stuff is always worth reading... and that power scaling by core clock is very good as usual (that's why the cache is only OC'd to 4100, so that core frequency power scaling can be examined directly). You can see his results (with cache OC wink.gif ) on HWBOT. thumb.gif

Guys - I'm not here to convince anyone of anything or just "believe".

@Darkwizzie - the point I was making is not the performance gain/loss with core clock, it's the performance gain/loss with cache frequency. The AID64 memory/cache benchmark looks at the cache/ram interface. As you vary cache frequency, ram throughput varies... eg, reveals the relationship between ram and cache. The data in the benchmark is self explanatory once you understand that.

"I had to lower the cache by an entire ghz to hold down the margin of error. I don't understand how that skews results. How much performance would I lose in something if I lost 100mhz core vs if I lost 1000mhz cache?" Well, it would skew the conclusion regarding cache. Not sure what you mean by "hold down the margin of error". However, if you intend to draw a conclusion regarding cache frequency, hold core constant and vary cache. Observe the effect one variable at a time. Again, I'm not comparing the impact of core vs cache frequency which is, well obvious from the nice data you posted in the OP. thumb.gif
Edited by Jpmboy - 10/16/15 at 9:00am
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post #2816 of 11360
Had 2 lock ups/freezes in the past 3 weeks, both while playing csgo. First time it happened I bumped the vcore by 0.05V, happened again tonight so I'll guess ill bump it again. No bluescreen though....pc just freezes frown.gif if it happens again I guess ill have to work on the memory even though its running at its rated xmp settings...
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post #2817 of 11360
both while playing csgo ? - dont play it tongue.gif

in other words, is it that prog? - I certainly wouldn't turn everything upside down over one prog biggrin.gifthumb.gif
post #2818 of 11360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post


Guys - I'm not here to convince anyone of anything or just "believe".
 

I actually don't understand what you're saying here by "just believe".

Quote:
... if you intend to draw a conclusion regarding cache frequency, hold core constant and vary cache. Observe the effect one variable at a time.

But that's what I did in the second part of that picture?

We have 4.8/4.8 vs 4.8/3.8, here the core did not change.

 

By holding down the margin of error, I mean to say that, if I tested 4.8/4.8 vs 4.8/4.7, the results would be somewhat dubious because the margin of error could very well overshadow genuine decreases in performance. That's the main reason why I tested 4.8/4.8 vs 4.8/3.8. If it had occurred to me to test that benchmark that is very sensitive to cache frequency, I would have entertained the idea of testing 4.8 vs 4.7 cache for just that test, however academic I feel the test is.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/16/15 at 9:17am
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post #2819 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post


But this is the thing? For 95% of real world uses a core OC of 4.8 is no different from 4.4, unless you are holding a stopwatch while opening your browser or whatever. If you want to get the max performance from any core OC, run the highest (stable) cache along with it. This is OCN right?

Regarding the bold-ed [text], what is your opinion on the following, please? Which one would you choose?

i7 4790K

A. Core and Cache Ratio = 46
VCore = 1.250V
Cache = 1.260V

OR

B. Core = 47, Cache = 44
Vcore = 1.250V
Cache = 1.250V

All values set in the BIOS.

And pardon me if I'm "hijacking".......


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post #2820 of 11360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostParticle View Post


Regarding the bold-ed [text], what is your opinion on the following, please:

i7 4790K

A. Core and Cache Ratio = 46
VCore = 1.250V
Cache = 1.260V

OR

B. Core = 47, Cache = 44
Vcore = 1.250V
Cache = 1.250V

All values set in the BIOS.

And pardon me if I'm "hijacking".......


?

In the future please direct Haswell/Devil's Canyon-related questions to those threads or PM.

 

Based on what have been said by pretty much everybody (even the person you've asked), 47/44 is better.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shredzy View Post

Had 2 lock ups/freezes in the past 3 weeks, both while playing csgo. First time it happened I bumped the vcore by 0.05V, happened again tonight so I'll guess ill bump it again. No bluescreen though....pc just freezes frown.gif if it happens again I guess ill have to work on the memory even though its running at its rated xmp settings...

I got some 1d bsods due to ram... Well, to be fair, my ram failed memtest but I decided to run it at those settings anyways, lol. Backed it down and everything has stayed put since. Whew.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladcrooks View Post

both while playing csgo ? - dont play it tongue.gif

in other words, is it that prog? - I certainly wouldn't turn everything upside down over one prog biggrin.gif thumb.gif

Every time I see you post, I can't stop looking at that pig in your picture. :h34r-smi 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praz View Post

Hello

Because of voltage rails cache speed is basically free with Skylake. I'm not sure why one would leave the speed at stock levels regardless of the amount of performance increase seen.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure either.

 

Maybe it should be my duty to make sure the people that even underclocked their cache below stock settings understand what's going on.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/16/15 at 9:23am
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(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Pro Series 840 256gb (Celapaleis) 1 TB Samsung Drive (Pack Yak) Samsung Pro Series 850 256gb (Celapaleis Reprise) Phoenix Down (External Backup) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua D14 Kraken x61 Push-Pull for GPU Windows 10 Pro Catleap 2560x1440 @ 60hz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Storm Trigger Brown Switches EVGA Supernova 1000w P2 Corsair 540 Air Razer Abyssus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Steelseries QcK Mini Blue Yeti Microphone Objective Dac + Amp Sescom AB Switch 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Krk Rokit 6 G2 x2 Radioshack Ground Loop Isolator (For Rokits) Wooaudio Aluminum Headphone Stand Sennheiser HD 800 
AudioOther
Logitech c920 Webcam NZXT Sentry Mix 2 Fan Controller 
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Undelwalt (2017)
(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Pro Series 840 256gb (Celapaleis) 1 TB Samsung Drive (Pack Yak) Samsung Pro Series 850 256gb (Celapaleis Reprise) Phoenix Down (External Backup) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua D14 Kraken x61 Push-Pull for GPU Windows 10 Pro Catleap 2560x1440 @ 60hz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Storm Trigger Brown Switches EVGA Supernova 1000w P2 Corsair 540 Air Razer Abyssus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Steelseries QcK Mini Blue Yeti Microphone Objective Dac + Amp Sescom AB Switch 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Krk Rokit 6 G2 x2 Radioshack Ground Loop Isolator (For Rokits) Wooaudio Aluminum Headphone Stand Sennheiser HD 800 
AudioOther
Logitech c920 Webcam NZXT Sentry Mix 2 Fan Controller 
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