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Skylake Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 349

post #3481 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyemo View Post

Hi all,
Great guide, great thread and responses, thanks everyone, some of them have helped me along the way.
I signed up to just to ask a question, because I'm at my wits end.

I'm no stranger to overclocking, but this is my first new desktop build in years and years (since when north bridges were a thing), and I'm having trouble figuring out why my overclock is so unstable, and I thought you lovely people might be able to lend a hand.

Motherboard is a MSI z170i gaming pro ac (the quite new mini-itx form factor one, I've got a small apartment, and also though it'd be fun to see how much performance I could squeeze out of a small board), and an i5-6600k.

I've been trying to hit a measly 41x on the multiplier, but as I increase the core voltage, the system seems to get less stable.

At 39x, default adaptive voltage bios setting, and an average with a vcore of 1.12 under load, it's fairly stable. Passes a modest XTU stress and x264 encode stress test. Day to day usage no problem.

At 41x, adaptive voltage + offset 0.1v, an average vcore of about 1.2 under load, it passes a short XTU stress alright, but x264 stress triggers the "IA: Electrical Design Point" and "RING: Max VR Voltage, Iccmax, PL4" protection flags as read off in HWinfo, and drops the multiplier to x37 (and passes).

At 41x with adaptive voltage + offset 0.15, an average vcore of 1.28 under load, it instantly reboots on both XTU and x264.
Same thing at 41x and vcore override of 1.35V (average actual vcore of about 1.22 under load).

Package power on the stress tests never seems to get over 60W, and the temp doesn't seem to break about 48C at the 1.35 core voltage, and I wouldn't of thought i'd be hitting the 100A max i've got ICCmax set to, unless there's something weird going on.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what might be trigging those protections? And why it seems to get less stable at higher vcore voltages (but still well under spec)?

Also, I've been wondering, is there any chance it's actually the RAM crashing with just vcore and multiplier OC'ing? (Kingston hyperx ddr4 2666 c15, running at it's tightest 2666 jedec specs). I tried upping the dimm voltage 10mV, but it didn't make a difference, and i didn't want to damage them to test a theory (ie. guess)...

Welcome!

As you probably remember it is best to test just one component at a time. cpu, cache and memory - ideally you test just one at a time. Also if you have a video card you want to leave that at its base clocks. There is a wealth of information in the OP but you have probably already read all that. So the easy way to do this is make a backup of everything first. I like the free version of Macrium Reflect these days. Make an image of everything, set Reflect to verify the image immediately after image completion. There are several ways to skin the cat from this point forward. Assuming we are overclocking just the cpu at this point - I like to set the cpuv to a constant max value that I am willing to accept. The max cpuv you are willing to accept is an acceptance of risk. For Skylake (measured) cpuv: 1.4v, 1.45v even up to 1.52v (Intel product spec) if you are careful and have really good cooling - water, phase change, cascade, ... . Other settings such as LLC (very important) and other voltages: VCCIO and System Agent Voltage (usually less important unless you are doing bclock oc) are also settings relevant to tuning your successful overclock. Download, install and watch closely the hwinfo app. (voltages and temps) as you acclimate yourself to how your combination of cpu and mobo behave as you increase clocks. Keeping cache, memory and video card clocks at stock while gradually increase the cpu multiplyer - 42, 43, 44 ... until you are no longer stable. At that point you need to increase cpuv if you want to go any further. Hats off to Jpmboy - the hwbot x265 benchmark looks like a great tool for a quiick stability test. From Jpmboy - "try x265 HWBOT bench with 4K 2x or 4x and p-mode... if the correction factor is less than 0,95 the OC needs tuning". Once you have found the max that can pass this x265 test (~20-25 min), proceed on to the longer x264 test with settings and duration as discussed in the OP. This is just my approach - there are many others ... smile.gif
Edited by SteveRo - 11/1/15 at 5:20am
post #3482 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balu0 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Ok, I run some trial and error and done some reading about the Vcore idling topic.

You need 3 setting to be enabled, to make it work:

1.) CPU SVID Support (this may be called something other on your board) have to be Enabled
This setting is recommended to be off for OC (and for a reason, more on that later). According to asus this setting:
Disable this item to stop the CPU from communicating with the external voltage regulator.

Let me quote someone form this forums: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

This is the hardware side of dynamic vcore.

2.) Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm) have to be on Enable
Simply put this setting allows your OS to change the CPU multiplier and vcore when idle

This is the software side of dynamic vcore.

3.) Offset or Adaptive mode have to be used for setting your Vcore in the Bios.
Manual setting will simply overwrite everything above and will give you a fix number.

It is important to start low with the offset in both cases, set it then go into your OS and check your vcore in software. Use Prime95 to stress it for a min with low FFT to see your maximum Vcore. it is important to use the hardest test here, most stress test will not make your system sue the max Vcore. If its too low, go back and increase the offset a bit.

And here you will face your frist problems: you will need high vcore then you are used to with manual to get it stable.


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
First of all you lose control of your vcore setting, the OS and you motherboard's voltage regulator will mess with it, increasing and decreasing it as it sees fit. And they do a awful bad job about it as I could see.
- It made my stable system crash on idle because the vcore dropped too low
- It made my stable system crash when high load situation started and it could not change fast enough
- It kicked my Vcore above I'm comfortable with (I run 1,36v manual, and this thing kicked 1,424v under load for no reason)

(Probably all of this could be solved with some tinkering with the settings, but I don't like it )

Secondly the gain is minimal if you have a normal Vcore and normal idle temperatures ( I get 22-26c idle with 1,36 vcore) its just safer and more stable to have it on manual.

Thirdly throttling your CPU can have a negative effect in benchmarks or in games where idle and load situations change frequently. It can cause stutters.

Fourth I would use this settings only when I have high vcore and I don't want it constantly on my CPU even when on Idle, but here comes the problem, with the setting above and with a high vcore, you are just asking for your chip to be burned, just imagine a situation when you have a 1,45 base vcore and your Mobo and OS figures its need more juice and kicks it up above 1,52.

Edit: One last thing I was mistaken about earlyer. C states have NOTHING to do with idling. C states are for sleep and hibernation. not dynamic cpu speed and vcore throttling, you can leave C stated off.

1) If you find that your system "requires" a higher vcore setting when using adaptive, it is not set up correctly or not implemented in the bios correctly
2) "... it could not change fast enough..." - nonsense. unless you disable turbo and speedstep, clock steps (and therefore frequency and current) are "not fast enough" either. doh.gif
3) if adaptive is setting a higher vcore than you SPECIFY in bios, it is either broken in the bios, or set up incorrectly. (and it is broken in a few manufacturer's early bios releases)
4) Clock bin lowering via speedstep and per-core throttling via prochot are not the same. throttling is not the clock bin change induced by load (re: current) change.

and fyi - even with a fixed (or even clamped) voltage, at stock vcore the intel spec "permits" a 70mV 10 usec (micro second) overshoot in the vcore rail... this is just a physical property of the circuitry... and why LLC is available to you. thumb.gif

Read this post from OCN member Praz: http://www.overclock.net/t/1568154/asus-north-america-asus-z170-motherboards-q-a-thread/1700_20#post_24535273
Edited by Jpmboy - 11/1/15 at 5:22am
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post #3483 of 11360
Quote:
Same thing at 41x and vcore override of 1.35V (average actual vcore of about 1.22 under load).

Why isn't your vcore at ~1.35 under load when you're setting it that way? :0
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post #3484 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

Incase anyone else is curious on the Corsair LPX kits as quite a few run them, I found this on the interweb.

As has been mentioned the kit can be Hynix (Ver5.29) or Samsung (Ver4.23).

I was trying to open mine but it fell into the too hard basket, then I found the above and mine is v4.23 so based - if true - I've got a Samsung ICs.

What's the best way to check that?
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post #3485 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by llantant View Post

Your C1E support was disabled in your first posts? I take it you have tried it enabled?

If adaptive isnt working then use offset or manual like other have said until fix.

Back on my sandybridge I always used offset myself, just be careful with voltage at high loads.

If you have tried this and I have missed the post then apologies.

Not sure I have actually tried messing with C1E. I can give it a shot. I am not familiar with how to use Offset but for now I can just not overclock or just use Override mode (this is MSIs version of manual mode).

I am kind of at the point now where I just want to use my computer haha...been at this for weeks now...I am hoping MSI will address the adaptive issue in a BIOS update.
    
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post #3486 of 11360
Try manually set the vcore, for 4.1 ghz start with something low like 1.3, adaptive and offsets are just too unstable in my opinion. Go up in 0.01 steps until you get it stable.

To find your stable OC start with manual vcore, then if you have a stable setup you can go back with that voltage in mind to adaptive (but you probably should not).

(for me adaptive crash the system in idle and gives too much vcore under load )

I don't know your MB but look for a setting called something like "VRM spread spectrum" and if you have it , disable that too, helped me a lot with stability. (it is just some electric noise interference reduction thing for pros working in audio loads)

Your memory should be ok, until you start tucjing teh base clock ( then you need to set it correctly), but if you are unsure, just set it bellow your 2666 to see.
post #3487 of 11360
In response to Balu0...

I will have to check out the the SVID setting your referring to otherwise I am following everything else in your instructions...

At this point I think the Adaptive Voltage setting just doesn't work...needs some sort of a BIOS update.

The good thing is I seem to be getting the impression that running in Override mode (manual mode) may actually be the best option anyways...
Edited by CC268 - 11/1/15 at 5:42am
    
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post #3488 of 11360
Thread Starter 

Hard time keeping up with my own thread. :D

 

 

Did you guys discover some new nuggets of truth while I was gone?

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Undelwalt (2017)
(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
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7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
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Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
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i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
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post #3489 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC268 View Post

Not sure I have actually tried messing with C1E. I can give it a shot. I am not familiar with how to use Offset but for now I can just not overclock or just use Override mode (this is MSIs version of manual mode).

I am kind of at the point now where I just want to use my computer haha...been at this for weeks now...I am hoping MSI will address the adaptive issue in a BIOS update.

So far, my experience - skylake c states on or off makes no difference when testing for max cpu oc. smile.gif
post #3490 of 11360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Hard time keeping up with my own thread. biggrin.gif


Did you guys discover some new nuggets of truth while I was gone?

Jpmboy discovered quicker stability test that looks really good - hwbot's x265 - " ... for the cpu "only" try x265 HWBOT bench with 4K 2x or 4x and p-mode... if the correction factor is less than 0,95 the OC needs tuning. It's fairly quick and at 4x is using a good amount of ram. ".

Takes about 20-25 minutes to run smile.gif
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