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[BBC News] July was Earth's hottest month on record, NOAA says - Page 40  

post #391 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by vallonen View Post

"However; the major changes we see sure as heck aren't caused by man, it is most likely caused by the sun. I can't think of any other source that could change the climate in such a rapid pace. "

You managed to quote me correctly, again, where did I blame the sun? I don't see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Natskyge View Post

The way things work in science is there is the commonly accepted theory if you think it is wrong then the burden is on you to proove it since the established theory already has been proven to be correct in the eyes of the scientific community..

You didn't describe science you just described politics.

"it is most likely caused by the sun"

Not saying you meant that as a direct charge, but my Teenage Daughter who is into arguing semantics would take it that way. wink.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #392 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

"it is most likely caused by the sun"

Not saying you meant that as a direct charge, but my Teenage Daughter who is into arguing semantics would take it that way. wink.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

Women will do anything to try win an argument, not only move the goal post no, but also change the subject matter. She's testing this on you now, later her boyfriend, then husband. yessir.gif

As for the sun being the culprit? The sun has been the source of the planets climate change in the past. Why would that have changed all of the sudden? It's still here as far as I can tell. There are scientists who are theorizing around the sunspots....

"I'm not saying that what we put out into the environment wouldn't affect us, of course it does, we do live here so what we do to the environment we do to ourselves by pure extension, However; the major changes we see sure as heck aren't caused by man, it is most likely caused by the sun. I can't think of any other source that could change the climate in such a rapid pace."

This is a scientific theory that make more sense than man made global warming.

On CO2
http://www.plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx/MenuItemID/96/MenuGroup/WhyCO2IsGood.htm
Edited by vallonen - 9/1/15 at 12:19pm
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post #393 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by vallonen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

"it is most likely caused by the sun"

Not saying you meant that as a direct charge, but my Teenage Daughter who is into arguing semantics would take it that way. wink.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

Women will do anything to try win an argument, not only move the goal post no, but also change the subject matter. She's testing this on you now, later her boyfriend, then husband. yessir.gif

As for the sun being the culprit? The sun has been the source of the planets climate change in the past. Why would that have changed all of the sudden? It's still here as far as I can tell. There are scientists who are theorizing around the sunspots....

"I'm not saying that what we put out into the environment wouldn't affect us, of course it does, we do live here so what we do to the environment we do to ourselves by pure extension, However; the major changes we see sure as heck aren't caused by man, it is most likely caused by the sun. I can't think of any other source that could change the climate in such a rapid pace."

This is a scientific theory that make more sense than man made global warming.

On CO2
http://www.plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx/MenuItemID/96/MenuGroup/WhyCO2IsGood.htm

I fully agree. If you want to see how much activity the sun is going through, try listening to an old AM radio. I listen to KNBR AM680 every night, being a Giants and 49ers fan. But I live up in Washington State. Their transmitter is a 50k watt transmitter and I have called in as well as have heard people from as far East as Colorado who have called in. I can speak from experience that the higher activity days cause massive interference that interrupts my listening pleasure as late as 9pm-10pm during the Summer and 5-7pm in the Winter hours. Only 7 years ago I didn't have this kind of interference. Used to be able to listen until 8am before the station faded. Now it's faded by 5-6pm. The only reason for my vagueness is I don't keep a journal about these things. I probably should but I had never thought to. The morning times are approximated because I'm half asleep at that time. tongue.gif

I know it's not station crossover because 670 KBOI(Boise) is the closest station to it and only when the Interference is at its worst do they come up on my radio at all. This is an old Phillips AM/FM CD radio. I got it in the late 90s.

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #394 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

I'll just leave this here again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science

Along with the reminder nothing is really ever proven if you want to get hyper technical because we will never have a way to measure anything with infinite precision.

I agree that a suspicion of those trying to force things on us is healthy; so long as you do not allow it to become the crux of your actions/inactions. IE, it is a good idea to question things, but only to the point that you do not become so focused with arguing that you ignore the data that is being provided to you. This is tantamount to arguing with a doctor that while there's a 50% chance of dying from a certain condition you're not going to follow their advice because the therapy/treatment they're offering will cost you more money than not doing it. Again, when dealing with what you perceive as imperfect information (IE data that is tampered with or has ulterior motives) you need to ask whether the risks of inaction are worth it.

Actually theories are proven valid by testing. If they always pass a test then they are valid. If they ever fail then they are invalid (unless an unaccounted factor can be found in which case the theories are changed or clarified and tested again) An example of a test would be to drop a feather and a bowling ball under vacuum and checked if their motion followed that predicted by theory.

Also, while I like your different perspective on your argument (often takes more than one for people with thick heads), I see a more fitting analogy as an unscrupulous quack physician taking financial advantage of a hypochondriac long after the symptoms in question have subsided.

Dying is kind of an extreme comparison. Do you really think we will get 5 degrees warmer by the onset of the next ice age? How bad could that be? There would be some relocations, more rain (warm air holds more moisture and warm water evaporates more), and more plants. I'm guessing all of this will amount to less of a detriment than the economic impact of trying to fight it. (regulatory costs estimated with a t).
And we don't have a way to reduce total global CO2 output. Every bit of production we ship to china with green regulations increases total pollution. If we wanted a cleaner environment we should make it as cheap and easy as we can to make stuff in an environmentally responsible manner in the countries that give a crap about the environment. This probably involves settling for good instead of perfect.
post #395 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natskyge View Post

I still fáil to see how it matters if the climate change is Real or not what we are doing to help it will help even if it is not true.
Case and point.
1: clean air self explantory
2: less acidic seas so the the sea eco system doesn't die of
3: less dependent on fossil fuels so we are ready with a good infrastructur when we run out.
4: cheaper energy
5: healthier people due to less pollution

And the list goes on so i fail to see the problem, besides isnt it a tad bit weird that the science you belive in just exctaly fits in so you have no responsiblity and you can continue with your wastefull life style? rolleyes.gif

Also sure would be Nice to see some Scientific proof that has NOT been disproved by the Scientific community.

So by your logic we should all believe the theory of global warming because it can't be disproved, it preaches good values, and man is inherently bad for the planet? That sounds an awful lot like a religious pitch to me. Well you can't disprove the existence of God either can you? I the realm of all science it is considered a theory until it is proven correct, not fact until it is proven incorrect. Sorry but the burden of proof falls in the alarmist's court, not the other way around.

I roll my eyes at a pathetic attempt to use fear (slippery slope logic) and the unknown to generate more overall concern for the environment and money for grants/further research. The basis for man's direct effect on warming temperatures is a theory and it will always be that. Going green is more popular than ever now and individuals and companies don't need to be guilt tripped or tricked into making more ethical (earth conscious) decisions. It has turned into somewhat of a semi religious/cult political machine and that is also what gives me pause.

I guess I fall into the "denier" group, but that doesn't mean that I am a conservative, or that I don't genuinely care for the planet or for my child's future here. I am just not one to believe everything that I am told to believe without some sort of concrete proof, regardless of its underlying ethical values. I am even less likely to believe a group of bullies that coerce and threaten their piers for going against the status quo and that lobby to have global warming taught to younger children (Article: Save the Children for Global Warming Propaganda) when their minds are more open to suggestion.
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post #396 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by BangBangPlay View Post

So by your logic we should all believe the theory of global warming because it can't be disproved, it preaches good values, and man is inherently bad for the planet? That sounds an awful lot like a religious pitch to me. Well you can't disprove the existence of God either can you? I the realm of all science it is considered a theory until it is proven correct, not fact until it is proven incorrect. Sorry but the burden of proof falls in the alarmist's court, not the other way around.

I roll my eyes at a pathetic attempt to use fear (slippery slope logic) and the unknown to generate more overall concern for the environment and money for grants/further research. The basis for man's direct effect on warming temperatures is a theory and it will always be that. Going green is more popular than ever now and individuals and companies don't need to be guilt tripped or tricked into making more ethical (earth conscious) decisions. It has turned into somewhat of a semi religious/cult political machine and that is also what gives me pause.

I guess I fall into the "denier" group, but that doesn't mean that I am a conservative, or that I don't genuinely care for the planet or for my child's future here. I am just not one to believe everything that I am told to believe without some sort of concrete proof, regardless of its underlying ethical values. I am even less likely to believe a group of bullies that coerce and threaten their piers for going against the status quo and that lobby to have global warming taught to younger children (Article: Save the Children for Global Warming Propaganda) when their minds are more open to suggestion.

It's not a theory. Every credible scientist on this planet agrees it's an issue. We're seeing the direct results of global warming in Western Antartica and Greenland's blackened ice. Bangladesh has lost a huge chunk of land mass due to the flooding.

The only people who say global warming doesn't exist are 1) uneducated or 2) biased, for whatever reason. Considering their ignorance would kill off future generations and potentially destroy the planet, climate change deniers should never be listened to.
post #397 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

It's not a theory. Every credible scientist on this planet agrees it's an issue. We're seeing the direct results of global warming in Western Antartica and Greenland's blackened ice. Bangladesh has lost a huge chunk of land mass due to the flooding.

The only people who say global warming doesn't exist are 1) uneducated or 2) biased, for whatever reason. Considering their ignorance would kill off future generations and potentially destroy the planet, climate change deniers should never be listened to.

Wow thats a straight up lie. . . . Progressives these days are bold!!!
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post #398 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

It's not a theory. Every credible scientist on this planet agrees it's an issue. We're seeing the direct results of global warming in Western Antartica and Greenland's blackened ice. Bangladesh has lost a huge chunk of land mass due to the flooding.

The only people who say global warming doesn't exist are 1) uneducated or 2) biased, for whatever reason. Considering their ignorance would kill off future generations and potentially destroy the planet, climate change deniers should never be listened to.

Uneducated and biased? You think it's fair that you have stereotyped those who refuse to believe the reverse engineered theory of global warming? At one time it was a scientific consensus that the world was round. It is ignorant, lazy, and arrogant to think that our CO2 production is the main cause of changing weather patterns on this planet when we barely understand the weather to begin with.

For arguments sake even if the climate alarmists had an answer and we knew how to control the temperature change, what would we do? Lower the temperature and upset some other fragile balance? No, we leave it alone and adapt to the changes just like almost every other living thing on this planet is programmed to do in its DNA. And yes, I obviously believe the theory of evolution, and yes I am educated and intelligent enough to think for myself and not believe everything that is shoved down my throat.

It is a fallacy to think that because man upsets some of the balance of the environments he inhabits that he is autatically the cause of any change that occurs. We haven't recorded changing weather patterns long enough to even know if the changes are out of the ordinary. Man has only been on this planet for a very short time, but of course we are arrogant enough to think that we can change our environment to suit us instead of adapting to its inevitable changes.
Edited by BangBangPlay - 9/1/15 at 7:02pm
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post #399 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max78 View Post

Wow thats a straight up lie. . . . Progressives these days are bold!!!

Always have been, love to list many concrete examples, however I fear my work would be wiped.

Something I've notice from reading most of this thread, conservatism is a value to conserve.
When I was a kid a conservationist and an environmentalist were the same thing. This was not a political definition.

But when I was a kid the big "scare scam" was global cooling, this has all been done before. It just did not work then.
And words meant what they meant, progressive thought has twisted the language

Also If I were worried about climate destroying the human race I'd be much more concerned will cooling than warming ie the dark ages in Europe.
The last mini-iceage which today would kill millions, and millions more than then.
Edited by the finisher - 9/1/15 at 6:57pm
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post #400 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

It's not a theory. Every credible scientist on this planet agrees it's an issue. We're seeing the direct results of global warming in Western Antartica and Greenland's blackened ice. Bangladesh has lost a huge chunk of land mass due to the flooding.

The only people who say global warming doesn't exist are 1) uneducated or 2) biased, for whatever reason. Considering their ignorance would kill off future generations and potentially destroy the planet, climate change deniers should never be listened to.


Not true at all. I already posted up links showing that right now we have more ice on our caps then we have for decades. Stop being a sheep.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [BBC News] July was Earth's hottest month on record, NOAA says