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My overclocked FX-4350 build. How much is it holding me back?

post #1 of 75
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, this is my first post here, second computer ever built. I try to keep things on a budget but i tend to replace the things that are holding me back over time and i end up spending more money in the end rolleyes.gif...

Anyways, i just recently completed my second tower ever and for some reason i went with a Fx-4350. I read an article about how games don't utilize multiple cores and how raw speed is better. redface.gif Well i should have done more research because even at 5.1ghz my cpu seems to be bottle-necking my gigabyte r9 380 4gb.

CPU is FX-4350 @ 5ghz @ 1.416v under load. Kept cool by a corsair H110.
MoBo is gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 v.4
GPU is a Gigabyte R9 380 G1 Gaming 4gb flavor. Overclocking results in similar FPS with lower GPU usage %.

The pictures are from BF4 48 man servers. I have tried low settings and ultra settings, there is about a 5-7fps difference. Everything on ultra and mesh quality on Medium/High gives me nearly identical FPS to all medium settings. Afterburner shows the GPU dropping out worse on some maps and better on others. The CPU is almost always 98%. (Typical FPS in BF4 conquest is 52-65fps depending on map)

Getting to the point, Is this GPU capable of way more? Would an FX-6300 @ 5ghz give it what it needs to run 100% in games or should i just say screw it and go for the FX-83XX?

Thanks guys!



post #2 of 75
Depending on how the game utilizes threads, more cores would help, but your at max clock speed. With the same current H100 cooler you have, you'll have a lower clock speed running an 8 core processor.

So a couple of things come to mind for better frame rates.

1 Buy Intel.

2 Buy a bigger Graphics card.

3 Do a little GPU overclocking and see if that helps net a higher frame rate.
post #3 of 75
are you using mantle for bf4? but yeah the fx 4350 has pretty slowish single thread speed,if you upgrade i suggest a i5.

and i owned the fx 8350 but in some games it bottlenecked 280x , even at 4.8 ghz its single core was pretty slow.

for the price you are better off buying a i5 4460 or a used 3570k or something.
Edited by buttface420 - 8/23/15 at 8:03pm
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post #4 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Depending on how the game utilizes threads, more cores would help, but your at max clock speed. With the same current H100 cooler you have, you'll have a lower clock speed running an 8 core processor.

Understood so a game that better utilizes multiple threads will take advantage of say a 63xx or 83xx however other single thread games would play the same if not possibly worse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

1 Buy Intel.
Haha, right. Well if i was starting from scratch i might consider this more however everything is purchased and ill stick to am3+ for atleast the next year or so. After that... who knows i might go intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

2 Buy a bigger Graphics card.
Right, so this actually intrigues me because im not sure if you mean, buy an intel cpu, then buy a better gpu. Or if you mean buy a better gpu on the amd cpu. Im pretty sure im "bottle necking" as is, do you really think more gpu power would help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

3 Do a little GPU overclocking and see if that helps net a higher frame rate.
I have, i actually put that in the OP and also the images show the results of said overclock. Less stable gpu utilization and i metioned relatively similar frame rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttface420 View Post

are you using mantle for bf4? but yeah the fx 4350 has pretty slowish single thread speed,if you upgrade i suggest a i5.

Haha, i read that first question and totally rememberd about mantle, thanks i forgot, so i tired it. FPS Is a bit higher on average but i noticed that on some servers it will randombly drop frames down to like 25fps for a second or so then go back up to 65-70fps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttface420 View Post

and i owned the fx 8350 but in some games it bottlenecked 280x , even at 4.8 ghz its single core was pretty slow.
In one of linus's videos on youtube he mentions having received an 8 core amd cpu but actually swapped it out for the 6 core. I dont know why but your statement has me wondering if it was to find a balance between cores and single core speed. Do you think i will see a performance increase switching to a fx 63xx? And overclocking to say 5ghz
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttface420 View Post

for the price you are better off buying a i5 4460 or a used 3570k or something.
I do appreciate the suggestion however as mentioned above i would prefer to stick with amd for at least the rest of the year. Am3+ cpu recommendations are welcome.


Thanks guys!
post #5 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerDerv View Post

Hey guys, this is my first post here, second computer ever built. I try to keep things on a budget but i tend to replace the things that are holding me back over time and i end up spending more money in the end rolleyes.gif...

Anyways, i just recently completed my second tower ever and for some reason i went with a Fx-4350. I read an article about how games don't utilize multiple cores and how raw speed is better. redface.gif Well i should have done more research because even at 5.1ghz my cpu seems to be bottle-necking my gigabyte r9 380 4gb.

CPU is FX-4350 @ 5ghz @ 1.416v under load. Kept cool by a corsair H110.
MoBo is gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 v.4
GPU is a Gigabyte R9 380 G1 Gaming 4gb flavor. Overclocking results in similar FPS with lower GPU usage %.

The pictures are from BF4 48 man servers. I have tried low settings and ultra settings, there is about a 5-7fps difference. Everything on ultra and mesh quality on Medium/High gives me nearly identical FPS to all medium settings. Afterburner shows the GPU dropping out worse on some maps and better on others. The CPU is almost always 98%. (Typical FPS in BF4 conquest is 52-65fps depending on map)

Getting to the point, Is this GPU capable of way more? Would an FX-6300 @ 5ghz give it what it needs to run 100% in games or should i just say screw it and go for the FX-83XX?

Thanks guys!




What were your graphic's settings during the afterburner graphs being shown?


EDIT: That is highly debatable ( depending on the game and settings of course) . Though also not always the case - It' much closer to the truth to say that Hyperthreading isn't helpful for gaming from what I have seen.
That's a big part of why people keep pushing the idea that more cores don't improve gaming performance. This isn't a perspective that should be universally accepted , particularly by people using an FX 4xxx processor. The truth is that there are plenty of games that you could possibly see improved framerates in by going from an FX4xxxx an FX with more cores , but that will depend on the game, level of detail ,resolution and how powerful your gpu is.
An example I will give is GTAV, the benchmark scores even at settings that were as high as my GTX 780ti could handle ( hit the vram limit), going from 4 active cores to 6 garnered huge percentage increase in framerate ( i think it was close to 25 % iirc, I'll look it up when i get a chance take with a grain of salt for now) and even netted around a 5% gain going from 6 to 8 active cores. ( my youtube of the benchmark https://youtu.be/0638xSR4sMQ ).
The 380 is pretty much a 7970 with more Vram isn't it? If so I could look up some old fraps data of my 8350 pushing my 7970 in BF4 and give you an idea of what to expect.
Edited by cssorkinman - 8/25/15 at 9:02pm
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post #6 of 75
What monitor do you have? Most monitors are 60Hz, so if your getting 52-65fps, you will only be able to get another 8ish fps without needing a monitor upgrade and that extra 8fps should be able to be achieved by overclocking your GPU a little. If your already at 52-65fps on a 60Hz monitor while playing your favourite games, I really wouldn't recommend upgrading anything.
post #7 of 75
You have listed next to zero info about what other hardware you have other then the CPU.
WHat PSU do you have in that system and everything else for that matter?
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post #8 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerDerv View Post

Hey guys, this is my first post here, second computer ever built. I try to keep things on a budget but i tend to replace the things that are holding me back over time and i end up spending more money in the end rolleyes.gif...

Anyways, i just recently completed my second tower ever and for some reason i went with a Fx-4350. I read an article about how games don't utilize multiple cores and how raw speed is better. redface.gif Well i should have done more research because even at 5.1ghz my cpu seems to be bottle-necking my gigabyte r9 380 4gb.

CPU is FX-4350 @ 5ghz @ 1.416v under load. Kept cool by a corsair H110.
MoBo is gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 v.4
GPU is a Gigabyte R9 380 G1 Gaming 4gb flavor. Overclocking results in similar FPS with lower GPU usage %.

The pictures are from BF4 48 man servers. I have tried low settings and ultra settings, there is about a 5-7fps difference. Everything on ultra and mesh quality on Medium/High gives me nearly identical FPS to all medium settings. Afterburner shows the GPU dropping out worse on some maps and better on others. The CPU is almost always 98%. (Typical FPS in BF4 conquest is 52-65fps depending on map)

Getting to the point, Is this GPU capable of way more? Would an FX-6300 @ 5ghz give it what it needs to run 100% in games or should i just say screw it and go for the FX-83XX?

Thanks guys!

You clearly have came to the right conclusion. Yes, your CPU is holding your GPU back. No doubt.

First let me say something about the first thing I bolded. You are generally correct. Raw speed or "IPC" (instructions per clock) is most important for gaming. There are many games where this does not matter very much and other games where it matters a lot. The FX series of CPU's have a low IPC. In fact, everything that AMD offers have about 50-60% less IPC than current Intel offerings(if you include Skylake). AMD GHz can not be compared to Intel GHz.

As far as games utilizing more or less cores.. you are also correct. Most games run perfectly fine on a quad-core, however there are some games that can take advantage of more threads. At the same time, while they CAN use more than 4 cores usually the benefit of this is small and does not really matter. Ever since Bulldozer AMD has used what is called modules. This is a pair of two cores that shares a single FPU. A traditional CPU has a dedicated FPU for each core. The FX 4350 that you have has 2 modules with 2 FPU's just like a dual core and thus while it has 4 cores, it is sorta gimped so to speak. I mention this because it will help answer the next thing I bolded for you.

Will the 6300 help your situation? Would an 8300 help your situation?

The 6300 has 3 modules/3 FPU's and the 8300 has 4 modules/4 FPU's. There are two answers this question. Firstly, the 6300 or the 8300 will DEFINITELY help. Will they push your GPU to 100%? I couldn't tell you. They'd definitely push it farther. While an Intel six or eight core processor will do little to nothing for the majority of games, the AMD CPU's will benefit since their modules are sharing an FPU. At the same time, while either of these CPU's will help your situation neither of them will solve the other problem. Lack of IPC. Unfortunately there isn't anything else AMD offers that has significantly more IPC that you can upgrade to.

Are you on a strict budget? Then grab a 6300 or an 83xx chip for somewhat of a fix. They are pretty cheap, especially if you look used. If your only goal is to get 60 FPS then either of them should help you do that. If you are not on a strict budget then I'd suggest switching the entire platform over to Intel instead of dumping more money into a problem that is likely to come up again down the road in another game.

That is probably the most unbiased answer you are going to get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

What were your graphic's settings during the afterburner graphs being shown?

EDIT: That is highly debatable ( depending on the game and settings of course) . Though also not always the case - It' much closer to the truth to say that Hyperthreading isn't helpful for gaming from what I have seen.
That's a big part of why people keep pushing the idea that more cores don't improve gaming performance. This isn't a perspective that should be universally accepted , particularly by people using an FX 4xxx processor. The truth is that there are plenty of games that you could possibly see improved framerates in by going from an FX4xxxx an FX with more cores , but that will depend on the game, level of detail ,resolution and how powerful your gpu is.
An example I will give is GTAV, the benchmark scores even at settings that were as high as my GTX 780ti could handle ( hit the vram limit), going from 4 active cores to 6 garnered huge percentage increase in framerate ( i think it was close to 25 % iirc, I'll look it up when i get a chance take with a grain of salt for now) and even netted around a 5% gain going from 6 to 8 active cores. ( my youtube of the benchmark https://youtu.be/0638xSR4sMQ ).
The 380 is pretty much a 7970 with more Vram isn't it? If so I could look up some old fraps data of my 8350 pushing my 7970 in BF4 and give you an idea of what to expect.

The R9 380 is a rebranded R9 285 with twice the VRAM. The R9 285 is an updated 7950 that is codenamed Tonga.
Edited by iinversion - 8/26/15 at 2:53am
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post #9 of 75
TLDR :

Long story short, yes, it's holding you back quite a bit. the 4 cores with 2 FPUs don't help that either (Makes the FX 6300 actually in line with the 1055T and the Thubans), but yeah, it's crippling you. Get a FX6300 or a FX8350 to band-aid it or an Intel platform to solve it completely.
    
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post #10 of 75
For what it's worth this is what I was getting for fps with a 4790K @ 4.8 ghz pushing a 7970 in BF4 1920x1200 u;tra settings



The 380 you have should be slightly more powerful than the 7970.
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