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post #91 of 1677
I'm looking at a new mATX build. Are any of Gigabyte's options up to snuff when it comes to the VRM and power delivery? Right now it looks like my only two options are the GENE and the Gaming 5 here.
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post #92 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by zvonexp View Post

It will be okay.. config is okay.. did u buyed cooler ? that cpu coming without cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by incog View Post

Obviously you need to buy a cooler. ^^

Thanks, yeah I am getting a Raijintek Aidos, it's supposed to be pretty good for its cost and size.
post #93 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavi View Post

I'm looking at a new mATX build. Are any of Gigabyte's options up to snuff when it comes to the VRM and power delivery? Right now it looks like my only two options are the GENE and the Gaming 5 here.

Currently running a perfectly fine 4.6 GHz overclock on my GA Z170M-D3H.

VRM and power delivery aren't as important as previous generations, from what I've heard.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1572028/z170-vrm-discussion-thread

See sin talking in that thread.
post #94 of 1677
Hi all
Purchased a gb z170 gaming 7 motherboard with a 6600k cpu. I have a custom water setup.
Haven't used a gigabyte board before, so I'm not really sure what I need to change to overclock the cpu?
Any help would be appricated. Tried the percentage overclock but it effects the ram speed? Currently using the preset overclocks for 4.5ghz. Want to over clock manually using an offset of some kind. Haven't been able to find any guides.
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post #95 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildog83 View Post

I am not sure but it may have something to do with the Skylake platform having only 16 PCI-E lanes on the CPU and another 20 have been moved to the chip-set. Just throwing out an idea, I think we will have to do some research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams View Post

It's not another 20 on the chipset. It's another 4 on the chipset for a total of 20. Just an FYI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildog83 View Post

It looks to me like there is up to 20 on the Chip-set itself. I can't see why you would have less PCI_E lanes available than even the Z97. http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-s-platform-specifications-detailed-z170-100series-chipset-replace-z97-2h-2015/ I could be wrong but I think the idea is to have the chip to run the GPU's and the chip-set to run any other hardware using up lanes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams View Post

Z97 had 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes from CPU and 8 extra 2.0 lanes from the chipset

Z170 has 20 PCI-E 3.0 lanes total (16 from CPU, 4 from chipset)

So while the Z170 has less total lanes than Z97, it has more fast ones.


@Bojamijams: Are you sure about this?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/9485/intel-skylake-z170-motherboards-asrock-asus-gigabyte-msi-ecs-evga-supermicro

"Up to 20x PCIe 3.0 (8 Gb/s each)" from the PCH - that means 20x PCIE 3.0 from the PCH to me, and not 4, or 20 in total including the CPU.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-vs-Z97-What-is-the-Difference-636/

This all points to me as Z97 PCH supplied 8x PCIe Gen 2 vs. Z170 PCH supplying 20x PCIe Gen 3. Quite a difference!
There definitely is an increase in the bandwidth available on Z170 PCH as things like 2x M.2 are x4 and there tends to be a fair bit less bandwidth switching compared to Z97.
M.2 x2 (PCIe gen 2) = 10 Gb/s (2x5)
M.2 x4 (PCIe gen 3) = 32 Gb/s (4x8)


Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative, and if you can explain your reasoning why you reached your conclusion on what is available on each platform, I would be very happy to learn something new for sure. Thanks
Edited by BlueSponge - 9/30/15 at 4:15am
post #96 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSponge View Post




@Bojamijams: Are you sure about this?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9485/intel-skylake-z170-motherboards-asrock-asus-gigabyte-msi-ecs-evga-supermicro

"Up to 20x PCIe 3.0 (8 Gb/s each)" from the PCH - that means 20x PCIE 3.0 from the PCH to me, and not 4, or 20 in total including the CPU.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z170-vs-Z97-What-is-the-Difference-636/

This all points to me as Z97 PCH supplied 8x PCIe Gen 2 vs. Z170 PCH supplying 20x PCIe Gen 3. Quite a difference!
There definitely is an increase in the bandwidth available on Z170 PCH as things like 2x M.2 are x4 and there tends to be a fair bit less bandwidth switching compared to Z97.
M.2 x2 (PCIe gen 2) = 10 Gb/s (2x5)
M.2 x4 (PCIe gen 3) = 32 Gb/s (4x8)


Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative, and if you can explain your reasoning why you reached your conclusion on what is available on each platform, I would be very happy to learn something new for sure. Thanks

No worry about being argumentative, no offense taken or anything like that. smile.gif And no I am not 100% sure on this. It does seem like the PCH gives 20 lanes, which is what the last slide you posted shows.

But then you have TechReport indicating that the GIgabyte Z170 Gaming 7 (pretty top of the line) only has 14 PCI-E from the PCH available
http://techreport.com/r.x/2015_9_19_Gigabytes_Z170XGaming_7_motherboard_reviewed/05-diagram_pcie_routing.gif

And Intel did say UP to 20 though I wonder who has full 20 if not a pretty high end gaming board.

But then again with the Gaming 7, we have this:

"The situation becomes even more complicated with PCIe SSDs. A four-lane PCIe-based SSD installed in the M2H M.2 slot will disable all the SATA ports on the bottom row—ports 0 through 3. Enable RAID mode, and you'll lose SATA port 5 and its corresponding SATA Express port, as well. A two-lane PCIe SSD installed in the M2D M.2 slot will disable SATA ports 2 and 3 and the SATA Express port they're embedded in. Enable RAID mode, and you'll lose those two ports along with SATA port 5 and its corresponding SATA Express port."

So if we have 20 lanes, using a 4x PCI-E ssd shouldnt' be disabling so many SATA ports if they have 20 lanes available.

So this is why I'm not 100% sure and why the whole thing is still confusing and frustrating me. Well not really frustrating as i'll only run two SSD's and 2 GFX cards at most so I'll be fine either way, but I don't like the confusion surrounding it.
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post #97 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojamijams View Post



But then again with the Gaming 7, we have this:

"The situation becomes even more complicated with PCIe SSDs. A four-lane PCIe-based SSD installed in the M2H M.2 slot will disable all the SATA ports on the bottom row—ports 0 through 3. Enable RAID mode, and you'll lose SATA port 5 and its corresponding SATA Express port, as well. A two-lane PCIe SSD installed in the M2D M.2 slot will disable SATA ports 2 and 3 and the SATA Express port they're embedded in. Enable RAID mode, and you'll lose those two ports along with SATA port 5 and its corresponding SATA Express port."

So if we have 20 lanes, using a 4x PCI-E ssd shouldnt' be disabling so many SATA ports if they have 20 lanes available.

So this is why I'm not 100% sure and why the whole thing is still confusing and frustrating me. Well not really frustrating as i'll only run two SSD's and 2 GFX cards at most so I'll be fine either way, but I don't like the confusion surrounding it.

I thought the SATA ports only get deactivated if you run the m.2 SSD's in SATA mode? I was under impression that you can use all SATA ports together with the m.2 ports if they run in pcie mode...
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post #98 of 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikiMoto View Post

I thought the SATA ports only get deactivated if you run the m.2 SSD's in SATA mode? I was under impression that you can use all SATA ports together with the m.2 ports if they run in pcie mode...

Nope, SATA still needs a lane, though 1 PCI-E lane supplies multiple SATA lanes.
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post #99 of 1677
It is a bit confusing, we are in kinda new territory here but the idea of having more PCI-E lanes on the chip-set to cover the storage solutions and the lanes on the CPU to run the GPU is a sound one and I think a leap in the right direction with increasing demands on both sides.
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post #100 of 1677
If I understand things correctly, this is what I get when talking about the PCH only - the direct CPU to graphics x16 PCIe Gen3 (or 2x x8 in CF/SLI) doesn't factor into discussion, as is common in both:

The FlexIO is only semi flexible.
For Z97 there was 18x PCIe Gen 2 (5Gb/s each) from the PCH. A maximum of 8x PCIe 2.0 lanes, and a maximum of 6x USB3.0 and 6x SATA III, with an obvious trade-off between those items to remove either 2x USB 3.0, 2x SATA III, or 2x PCIe to facilitate the other. There was an awful lot of switching going on, and many things would get disabled if something else as used. A lot of ASMedia chips were used to drive USB ports and SATA, and the bandwidth available wasn't sufficient in my opinion. SATA III is 6Gb/s whereas the available bandwidth was only 5Gb/s...

The HSIO FlexIO is more flexible than before.
For Z170 there is 20x PCIe Gen 3 (8Gb/s each) from the PCH. There are 5x groups of 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes as a maximum of 20x PCIe Gen 3 lanes plus 6x USB 3.0. So, it's entirely possible to loose a few (4) PCIe lanes to make the total USB 3.0 up to the maximum of 10x USB 3.0. Still only 6x SATA III are supported as maximum (but ASMedia controllers can and are used for more). Intel Rapid Storage Technology is only available on 12 of the lanes, for SATA or PCI storage, but a few SATA can be moved to non-IRST capable locations.

All of this "up to" wording basically means that there's a finite number of lanes, and some lanes can be one thing or another, eg can be PCIe or USB 3.0. So, there is a maximum number for each interface that the PCH will actually natively drive, but not all of those maximums for every interface maybe able to be met with the number of PCIe lanes actually available in total. It's always a trade-off, one thing or the other, sometimes one thing will disable the other eg M.2 vs SATA III.


Let's take a look at that Gigabyte Gaming 7 review (I also have the manual open):
http://techreport.com/review/29072/gigabyte-z170x-gaming-7-motherboard-reviewed

PCe lanes in brackets at the end of each line.
1x PCIe x16 @ x4 - shares bandwidth with M2H_32G. PCIEX4 will be disabled when an SSD is installed in M2H_32G. (4)
3x PCIe Gen 3 x1 (3)
3x SATA Express / 6x SATA III (6)
2x SATA III (via ASM1061 1x PCIe Gen 2 > 2x SATA III) (1)
2x M.2 32G (1st disabled PCIEX4) (M2D_32G disables SATA III) (0)
5x USB3.0 (0)
2x RJ45 Gb LAN (2)

Total 16 lanes

4x USB 3.0 (Chipset+Renesas Hub) (0?)
1x Type-C USB 3.1 (2?)
1x USB 3.1 (2?)

The other 4 lanes?

It's a challenge to find all of the lanes, and quite why manufacturers have chosen to do what they have. I would have liked to see more jumpers to allow the user to disable a 2nd LAN in favour of keeping the PCIe lane for something else, like a PCIe slot. I would have liked to see more jumpers to let the user decide what they want disabled to enable what, rather than being stuck with the choices that have been offered. Z97 was very restrictive in comparison, but even so, there's room for improvement.

I think thy made a typo in the talk of M2H/M2D disabling SATA. A x4 SSD in the M2H slot disables ONLY the PCIEX4 (x16 length @ x4) slot, and doesn't do anything to the SATA ports, or SATA Express. The M2D slot does indeed share bandwidth directly with the SATA ports though, and therein is the trade-off.

Edit: The following review site confirms that the Renesas USB3.0 hub uses the 6th USB 3.0 lane form the PCH, not a PCIe lane (6 total USB 3.0 from Z170).
Also, the Intel Alpine Ridge USB 3.1 controller uses 4x PCIe lanes, and accounts for the remaining lanes. All lanes accounted for 6 (USB) + 20 (PCIe/SATA/LAN).
http://www.ixbt.com/mainboard/gigabyte/gigabyte-ga-z170x-gaming-7.shtml





Oh and yes, you were part correct in the 4 PCIe lanes thing. DMI 3.0 is still only 32Gb/s or 8T/s and is a 4x link, so it's is infact true that the CPU talking to the PCH is over a 4x PCIe link way, although that's probably over simplified. DMI 2.0 was also a 4x link, but was noticeably slower at 20 Gb/s
Edited by BlueSponge - 10/1/15 at 5:09am
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