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Do 4k TV really do 120Hz / 240Hz?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I noticed that a lot of TVs market themselves at 120 Hz or 240 Hz. Do refresh work differently for TV than monitors? Can you output more than 60Hz at 4k res with more than one HDMI 2.0 cables? If so do anyone know if Nvidia supports this?
post #2 of 15
I'm not aware off hand of any TV that runs at more than 60Hz. All of the implementations of 120/240/480Hz that I'm aware of are just Motion Interpolation.

In addition you can only output a maximum of 60Hz @ 4k with an HDMI 2.0 cable.
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post #3 of 15
The input lag of a TV is likely to be significantly more than a PC monitor, as well.

And 240Hz at 4K isn't happening for YEARS... You're lucky to push 60Hz at 4K, if you have like dual TITAN Xs and turn off AA...
    
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post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Is there a reliable website that publish TV's true refresh rates? Samsung only publish their "Motion Rate 240"

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/un/65/ju/un65ju7100fxza/TV_JU7100_SpecSheet_3-17-15.pdf

Rtings.com list the JU7100 as 120Hz refresh rate
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-brand/samsung/ju7100/specifications

They also give this conversation table
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fake-refresh-rates-samsung-clear-motion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion

Are those charts accurate?


With regards to the HDMI 2.0 cables. Is it possible to output >60Hz with two cables? Is that a feature supported by TV or Nvidia? With GTX980Ti and Titan X in SLI, it's possible to run games at >60fps with low AA. I was wondering if it's possible to connect a HDMI 2.0 cable to each card, and feeding both to the TV? Or is that a fantasy at this time?

About the input lag, when you use a TV as a monitor, do you get the game mode Input Lag or the PC mode input lag?

Thanks
post #5 of 15
DisplayPort 1.3 should apparenlty do 4k @ 120Hz, but most TVs won't have that.
    
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post #6 of 15
Many high end 4k tv's are true 120hz panel (for example Samsung's 8 and 9 series). Everything over 120hz is considered "effective". So Samsung 2015 high end tv are true 120hz (meaning they really refresh at 120hz) and are 240hz effective (meaning they will "achieve" 240hz through image processing like interpolation and such).

Every company has its own naming scheme. Samsung for example uses Clear Motion Rate and the number is always the double of what the tv true panel refresh rate is. So a 240 CMR is a true 120hz panel while a 120 CMR is a true 60hz. It's a marketing think and notice how they don't use the nominal "hz" next to their CMR number on their boxes.

Now, there's also the input refresh rate supported by the tv when used as in PC mode as a PC monitor. For example, the same high end Samsung TV is a true 120hz panel but won't accept anything over 60hz in terms of input (even at 1080p). So even if your panel can refresh at 120hz and you push 120fps, it will act as a 60hz PC monitor. It refreshes at 120hz only for tv viewing. Up to now, absolutely no tv can accept input higher than 60hz at 4k. At 1080p, the only tv's that do refresh higher than 60hz are Vizio (they do 120hz at 1080p). While Vizio is not as top notch as Samsung and Sony in image quality, it can be a very affordable alternative for gaming (mostly at 1080p) because you will get a true higher refresh rate.

The other thing to consider though is input lag. The fastest tv's on the market right now are around 20-23ms input lag and many will be in the 30ms in "game mode". It's totally playable but it just can't compare to gaming monitors like the ROG swift (1-4ms depending on TN or IPS) with their 120-144hz. It's a tv after all and to achieve such high quality image, the tv needs to add processing to the image. Game mode will disable most of the extra processing but not everything. Overall, it can act as a PC monitor but it's not its primary purpose smile.gif

If you want panel information, the best site around is http://www.rtings.com

You can check by brand and get all the information summary needed + in depth reviews. As an exemple, here is Samsung's page:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-brand/samsung
Edited by Merranza - 1/7/16 at 6:52pm
post #7 of 15
Sony W80c are also 120hz panels.


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post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merranza View Post

Many high end 4k tv's are true 120hz panel (for example Samsung's 8 and 9 series). Everything over 120hz is considered "effective". So Samsung 2015 high end tv are true 120hz (meaning they really refresh at 120hz) and are 240hz effective (meaning they will "achieve" 240hz through image processing like interpolation and such).

Every company has its own naming scheme. Samsung for example uses Clear Motion Rate and the number is always the double of what the tv true panel refresh rate is. So a 240 CMR is a true 120hz panel while a 120 CMR is a true 60hz. It's a marketing think and notice how they don't use the nominal "hz" next to their CMR number on their boxes.

Now, there's also the input refresh rate supported by the tv when used as in PC mode as a PC monitor. For example, the same high end Samsung TV is a true 120hz panel but won't accept anything over 60hz in terms of input (even at 1080p). So even if your panel can refresh at 120hz and you push 120fps, it will act as a 60hz PC monitor. It refreshes at 120hz only for tv viewing. Up to now, absolutely no tv can accept input higher than 60hz at 4k. At 1080p, the only tv's that do refresh higher than 60hz are Vizio (they do 120hz at 1080p). While Vizio is not as top notch as Samsung and Sony in image quality, it can be a very affordable alternative for gaming (mostly at 1080p) because you will get a true higher refresh rate.

The other thing to consider though is input lag. The fastest tv's on the market right now are around 20-23ms input lag and many will be in the 30ms in "game mode". It's totally playable but it just can't compare to gaming monitors like the ROG swift (1-4ms depending on TN or IPS) with their 120-144hz. It's a tv after all and to achieve such high quality image, the tv needs to add processing to the image. Game mode will disable most of the extra processing but not everything. Overall, it can act as a PC monitor but it's not its primary purpose smile.gif

If you want panel information, the best site around is http://www.rtings.com

You can check by brand and get all the information summary needed + in depth reviews. As an exemple, here is Samsung's page:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-brand/samsung

+rep


Im hoping more 4k TV's adopt DP1.3 as an option alongside HDMi. More people use PC / HTPC / Steam machines than before and the old 'pc mode' connector of choice on TV's was VGA .. its time for a digital solution and HDMi is definitely not it because that always runs through a Video DAC and has extra flags / DRM and other such stuff + audio layers creating more input lag not to mention it cant support 120hz or even 90hz @ 4k at its current best 2.0 standard.

No we need some high end Samsung , LG, etc.. OLEDS with 120hz 4k native via DP1.3 ( hopefully with the option to use either PC mode or choose some of the extra processing to 240hz )
post #9 of 15
I picked up the sony bravia 4k 810c because it is a true 120hz panel and sony seems to be one of the only makers that has true anti-judder in all playback modes. The VA panel is great too.
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post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robilar View Post

I picked up the sony bravia 4k 810c because it is a true 120hz panel and sony seems to be one of the only makers that has true anti-judder in all playback modes. The VA panel is great too.
Not sure which panel the 850c uses but if its possible for you I would say consider swapping the 810c for the 850c. I think it is normally a $200-300 difference in price. Reason why is that the 850c has the Triluminos Display giving you more colors and it supports HDR content whenever it becomes available in the ext 1-3 years to give you better contrast.
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