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[Official] BenQ XL2730Z Owner's Club - Page 17

post #161 of 837
Sigh, this is a very difficult question to answer.

I mean the answer is simple but explaining it in a way where everyone can be happy is literally impossible.

First I'll say it the simple way:

1) use blur reduction if you can get FPS=refresh rate at all times, and enable Vsync to lock the framreate to synchronization. This will improve your gameplay enjoyment the most out of anything, as long as you can deal with strobe crosstalk and input lag.

2) use freesync (blur reduction off) if your FPS is often dropping below your refresh rate. Then you will get a blurry image, but smooth rendered frames without any stutters or hiccups.

Now, from my side, I'm a blur reduction guy. When playing a FPS game, having a glass smooth image gives you the most enjoyment possible, and having a blurry, smooth rendered image is a bit annoying pleasure wise but doesn't detract from gameplay. Having a glass smooth but often jerky stuttering image is worse than having a blurry, smooth rendered image, and having a blurry, jerky image is the absolute worst.

I have an XL2720Z, so to make the most of the "glass smooth" image, I create lower custom refresh rates so I can keep the FPS=refresh rate with no or at least minimal FPS drops. That way since I can't use freesync, I can enjoy blur reduction. For COD advanced warfare, I used 91hz to match the 91 FPS cap and enabled blur reduction. For COD black Ops 2, I could just set it to 100hz, enable blur reduction and never get any FPS drops under 100. Very enjoyable.

For COD Black ops 3, I found that the FPS often drops under 100, too much for my liking, at high detail, but almost never drops below 85. So I created an 85 hz custom resolution, enabled vsync and blur reduction, and get a TON of enjoyment at 1 shotting people with my Argus Lever shotgun smile.gif

The big problem with the XL2730Z is that at 120hz and 144hz, the strobe crosstalk is simply too high and covers a bit to much of the screen (please check CallsignVega's post from earlier in this thread), although in games with a large sized hud at the bottom of the screen, this may not be a problem.

A bigger problem with the XL2730Z is its inability to strobe in sync with the refresh rate lower than 120hz. So you can't use the trick from the older Z series to drop the refresh rate (or make a custom one!), then use a vertical total tweak change to force the backlight to strobe in sync with the refresh rate (but at 60hz pulse widths--e.g. 0.167ms persistence per point of Strobe Duty (Intensity), and keeping 120hz/120 FPS or 144hz/144FPS is difficult to do in any game besides CS:Go. Even in an old game like COD Black Ops 2, I can't keep 120 hz/120 FPS at all times.

Another problem you need to know about is how the "AREA" (AKA Strobe Phase) setting works.
Area controls where the crosstalk is on the screen, but what is ACTUALLY does is control at what point the strobe BEGINS And ENDS During a refresh. At an AREA of 100, the strobe beings as EARLY as possible, meaning there is **NO** DIFFERENCE IN INPUT LAG WITH AREA=100 blur reduction ON, and blur reduction OFF, with vsync on. NO DIFFERENCE. I've tested it.

the problem is, Having an "Area' of 100 gives you even more strobe crosstalk at the bottom of the screen than Area of 000, while Area of 000 gives you 1 frame HIGHER input lag, because the strobe is "pushed into the next frame (next vertical refresh period)".

Even Chief Blur buster had this incorrect when he made his strobe utility for the V2 firmware on the previous Z monitors. He had it labeled as "Strobe phase 000" (Area 000 in the XL2730Z) as "earlier strobe phase", and Strobe phase maximum (the windows utility limited the max strobe phase to 047, but the service menu allowed you to go up to 100) as "later strobe phase".. However this should have been called "Strobe phase 000=LATER strobe phase, because the strobe is done LATER in the refresh period. It looks backwards because the Crosstalk moves DOWNWARDS as you increase the strobe phase (AREA), but what is ABOVE the crosstalk field? (the CURRENT frame), and as the crosstalk field drops, the CURRENT frame covers more of the screen as you increase AREA (moving the crosstalk downwards).

As you DECREASE Area, the crosstalk field moves UPWARDS, meaning the LATER frame (the one rendered AFTER the current frame) --the frame UNDER the crosstalk area, starts covering more of the screen, thus = 1 frame higher input lag.

The main issue here is in order to get blur reduction without any added input lag, you need to use AREA=100, but this has WAY too much crosstalk at the bottom of the screen. Crosstalk happens because the pixels have not finished fully refreshing (voltages making the pixel colors cycle fully back to neutral) after the current frame has been rendered (higher refresh rates ALWAYS will have MORE crosstalk than lower refresh rates when strobing). This could be alleviated greatly on the Older Z series monitors by using a Vertical total 1497-1502 tweak, which would change the crosstalk from covering 33% of the bottom of the screen, to less than 10%. While VT Tweaks STILL "work" on the XL2730Z, it does nothing for strobe timing or crosstalk reduction anymore frown.gif




Sorry for writing an essay on this :/
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post #162 of 837
Good informative essay, you cover all points you make in tens of posts I saw in several threads smile.gif Copy it in a blog or something, will be useful for many users.

I guess I will have to see crosstalk in blur reduction mode with my own eyes. If its unacceptable then FreeSync it is. I doubt it is much worse than playing 70-100 fps on 120Hz (and not very fast) screen

Don't make such a big deal from input lag difference from AREA setting. Keep in mind that bottom part of your screen ALWAYS has more total lag than top, because it is drawn last. So when you strobe later, it wil equalize total lag to that of the bottom part. And the worst difference you may get equals to one screen refresh which is 6-8ms at 144 and 120Hz. One can live with that
post #163 of 837
Yes that's true.
I don't use a high strobe phase usually (lower input lag) at 120-125hz unless I absolutely -need- that extra 8 ms. There are times especially in a MOBA, where that can make a difference. But at 100hz and especially at 85hz, you can feel a difference. 11.7ms of frame lag can actually be felt when you are strobing. Some people with the XL2730Z have noticed the input lag improvement from using strobe phase 100 (usually those CS:Go guys). So I'm not surprised someone who has to awp something the size of a few pixels can notice it.
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post #164 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecmg View Post

I am at crossroads.
Getting a new Benq XL2730Z monitor. It supports both FreeSync and blur reduction at 144Hz and 1440p

Now the next decision I have to make, do I go for
a) (cheaper and slower) Radeon Fury and game at lower FPS but in FreeSync
b) GTX980Ti and push for stable 120-144 fps in blur reduction mode (lowering settings to stay high fps)

But never experienced Freesync nor Blur Reduction I can't say which one I will like better.

I am not sensitive to screen tearing, but i really hate lags and stuttering and dips to low fps
I did like 120Hz gaming at 1080p, smooth and responsive always.

Only 980Ti has the horsepower to output steady 120fps at 1440p, but reviews say Freesync makes lower fps feel as smooth.

Which one would you go for ignoring AMD/NVIDIA preference? Blur reduction or Freesync?

Yeah but when games just flat out run poorly like Fallout 4 even a 980 Ti cannot get 144fps all the time. Pretty much why I went the gsync route since almost every game I play nowadays I simply cannot push 120fps whether it's because the game is too demanding like the Witcher 3 or just runs bad like Fallout 4. Have you thought of just getting a 980 Ti paired with a gsync+ULMB monitor? At least you will have the option to use both, just not at the same time of course. Yes it's going to run you more money but I personal think it's worth it. The 2730Z is still an excellent monitor though if you still rather get it.
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post #165 of 837
Isn't Fallout 4 have physics clamped to 60 fps? Anything higher is just asking for (more) issues playing.
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post #166 of 837
I haven't ran into any issues until I hit triple digit frame rates. Then the game starts breaking at certain points, but anything up to 90ish plays fine.
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post #167 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoth420 View Post

Isn't Fallout 4 have physics clamped to 60 fps? Anything higher is just asking for (more) issues playing.

Yeeeep - figured they would have made engine advances over Skyrim but I guess not. Have to love that all games are developed with consoles in mind first these days... You can turn off the Vsync in the INI files but anything past ~80 fps can introduce glitches. I also can't get the game to work with Freesync: having it on somehow caps the framerate to 20 doh.gif Also I swear it's not benefiting much from my Xfire setup...
Edited by killa_concept - 11/24/15 at 6:50pm
post #168 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by killa_concept View Post

Yeeeep - figured they would have made engine advances over Skyrim but I guess not. Have to love that all games are developed with consoles in mind first these days... You can turn off the Vsync in the INI files but anything past ~80 fps can introduce glitches. I also can't get the game to work with Freesync: having it on somehow caps the framerate to 20 doh.gif Also I swear it's not benefiting much from my Xfire setup...

Gamebyro engine, ruining potentially good games for a decade...
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post #169 of 837
OK got my new XL2730Z

No dead or stuck pixels - YAY!
Scary fast panel, coming from XL2410T its day and night

Blur reduction, definitely a keeper. So that makes Freesync unnecessary. Right? Right??

(Trying to convince myself to pay 110euro more for 980Ti over Fury)
post #170 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecmg View Post

OK got my new XL2730Z

No dead or stuck pixels - YAY!
Scary fast panel, coming from XL2410T its day and night

Blur reduction, definitely a keeper. So that makes Freesync unnecessary. Right? Right??

(Trying to convince myself to pay 110euro more for 980Ti over Fury)

Blur reduction should only be used if framerate matches refresh rate at almost all times. This goes for any strobed backlight. If the framerate is often dropping below the refresh rate, most benefits to blur reduction (image clarity while turning) are gone and the sutters became -more- obvious because the blur reduction removes the "motion blur", making the stutters stand out even more. In that case, freesync (or gsync) would be much better.

BTW if neither freesync nor gsync are available on a monitor that has blur reduction, then blur reduction on with stutters still looks better than blur reduction off with stutters....just the stutters will stand out more.
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