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[Official] BenQ XL2730Z Owner's Club - Page 6

post #51 of 837
Just found out that this monitor does 144 Hz backlight strobing. Never even knew it existed! I ordered one to test. 2560x1440 @ 144 Hz strobe, no IPS glow and 1ms pulses capable at 120 cd/m2 and almost 200 cd/m2 brightness at 1.75ms has my interest piqued! Don't care about Freesync.

Very impressive numbers and as far as I know the only monitor in the world that can strobe at 144 Hz and that is also fairly bright... Pretty much would seem to wreck the TN ROG Swift for ULMB fans.
Edited by CallsignVega - 9/26/15 at 9:05pm
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post #52 of 837
Vega, you know the previous Z series could also strobe at 144hz.

The little brother, the XL2720Z can do it, and while the 1440p version (XL2730Z) are fine if you only want 120hz and 144hz storbing, it can not strobe in sync under 120hz. 85hz, 100hz ,even 110hz was tested and it strobes at 120hz sync pulses causing bad stuttering. 60 hz double strobes (at 120hz pulses) with no option to force single strobe, like you could on the older Z series.

it seems to be a huge firmware bug from the change in scalers. I know it's a bug because the previous Z series would fall back to 60hz backlight pulse widths (but still strobe in sync with the current refresh rate) if the vertical total exceeded the expected defaults for that resolution. It would only strobe "out of sync" if a VT for a different resolution were used for the current one (e.g. 1144 VT at 100hz refresh rate, which is the expected VT for 120hz, and so on; 100hz defaults to 1133 VT). If the VT exceeded this, it would fall back to 60hz pulse widths but maintain proper sync (up to about VT 1360, then black screens up to VT 1497-1502, which works again, and which seem to be what "Lightboost" mode uses internally). VT1502 is the max upper limit.

The XL2730Z does not respond to VT Tweaks at all. Probably due to the scaler change.

The XL2720Z can single strobe (if the service menu option "Single strobe" is forced on) from 60hz to 144hz in 1 hz increments and can strobe (with vertical total tweak values from 1497-1502; you may have to use different values in this rage, at every refresh rate from 61 to 129 hz (60 hz black screens at a VT higher than 1260, without some bizarre timings).

The only refresh rate that Is known to fail at ANY VT change (besides 60hz, which has a workaround) is 76hz. It sometimes works and sometimes just black screens out of range.

I'm using the XL2720Z right now.

The problem with 144hz strobing is the crosstalk. It covers almost half the screen...(The lower the refresh rate, the less crosstalk there is, because since the panel response time is slower, the pixels have more time to settle between strobe pulses (sort of Logical).

(BTW The XL2720Z can run 2560x1440, downsampled via the scaler, up to 110hz without artifacts, which is basically supersampling. This would have been big news before the days of DSR and VSR).
Edited by Falkentyne - 9/26/15 at 9:42pm
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post #53 of 837
Hmm interesting. I did read the issues with below 120 Hz strobing on TFT Central, but I guess it's good that I am only interested in 120-144 Hz strobing. The 30Z caught my eye as it's 2560x1440, I couldn't ever buy a 1080p monitor again.

For those that use the TN Swift in ULMB mode, this panel at-least on paper appear to be quite a bit better. 144 Hz strobe vs 120 max. 191 cd/m2 max vs 121 cd/m2, all the while with shorter pulse widths for better motion clarity.

144 Hz strobing means V-sync isn't as necessary as screen tear is harder to see the faster the refresh minimizing input lag. Then toss on top of that a nice brightness boost, this display should be fun to test.
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post #54 of 837
What brightness do you guys use with blur reduction enabled? Do you guys use blur reduction all of the time, including in your chosen operating system? I'm currently using 15 brightness with blur reduction disabled and the only reason why I haven't enabled blur reduction is due to the fact that I'm using a calibrated ICM based on the 15 brightness.
post #55 of 837
Since freesync and blur reduction can not be used at the same time and 90% of the people bought the XL2730Z for freesync purposes, I would assume very few keep blur reduction on always.

I can't speak for xl2730z users, but on my XL2720Z (this is a 1080p displayport 1.1 or 1.1a monitor without freesync), I have blur reduction on 100% of the time. Never any reason to keep it off since my last two monitors before this were the VG248QE (usually in Lightboost mode always, even on the desktop) and before that, various CRT screens. I couldn't ever deal with sample and hold motion blur after my last CRT broke, even though before the original Lightboost hack came out for the VG248QE, I was forced to use sample and hold for awhile.
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post #56 of 837
Falk you haven't though about getting the 30Z? 144 Hz strobing with 191 cd/m2 is pretty sweet! Or you could do quick 1ms pulse motion clarity and still keep 120 cd/m2.. I think every other strobing backlight display drops well below 100 cd/m2 with that quick of pulses. Although you do need a beast of a machine to keep FPS up there to make it worth it at 1440p. The machine in my sig can just get there in a lot of newer games with settings maxed or almost maxed.

One cool thing about a decent brightness strobing display like the 30Z is that you can control brightness with pulse width and leave "brightness" setting at 100. So if I am playing during the day I can get 191 cd/m2 with 1.75ms pulses, and then at night in a dim room drop down to 90 cd/m2 at a super quick .75ms pulse or 50 cd/m2 for an incredible .50 ms pulse motion clarity. Basically for free!
Edited by CallsignVega - 9/27/15 at 2:59pm
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post #57 of 837
Callsign,
I was intending to buy the XL2730Z on day one, as soon as it hit the shops. But the little man inside my head told me to wait a bit. Then when it did come out, I didn't have enough cash to grab it from newegg, so I waited and kept asking people to test the strobing while I saved enough cash.

Then TFTCentral review came out and we found that it did not strobe correctly under 120hz, which was a deal breaker for me (I play most of my games at 100hz with vsync or 91hz (call of duty) strobed with vsync, as well as 60 FPS (street fighter 4)/60hz, dark souls (60fps/60hz) or arcade game emulators (60fps/60hz).

Then in the blur busters thread we also found that it would not even strobe at even 110hz correctly (it stayed at 120hz pulses) and would NOT use vertical total tweaks for lowering crosstalk) frown.gif

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2222&start=20

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2448


This was a dealbreaker for me. You can see I carefully scruitinzed this screen frown.gif
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post #58 of 837
I understand. Just get a faster PC and run 120/144 strobed! Just playing, it's quite hard to run and takes a bit of an investment. I can't wait to test what 144 Hz strobed looks like on 1440p and decent brightness. Mine comes in tomorrow and I'll post my thoughts here.
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post #59 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

Callsign,
I was intending to buy the XL2730Z on day one, as soon as it hit the shops. But the little man inside my head told me to wait a bit. Then when it did come out, I didn't have enough cash to grab it from newegg, so I waited and kept asking people to test the strobing while I saved enough cash.

Then TFTCentral review came out and we found that it did not strobe correctly under 120hz, which was a deal breaker for me (I play most of my games at 100hz with vsync or 91hz (call of duty) strobed with vsync, as well as 60 FPS (street fighter 4)/60hz, dark souls (60fps/60hz) or arcade game emulators (60fps/60hz).

Then in the blur busters thread we also found that it would not even strobe at even 110hz correctly (it stayed at 120hz pulses) and would NOT use vertical total tweaks for lowering crosstalk) frown.gif

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2222&start=20

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2448


This was a dealbreaker for me. You can see I carefully scruitinzed this screen frown.gif
What brightness do we get out of the 2411/2420/2720 with blur reduction on and vertical total trick enabled with 2ms persistence? Or whatever value you use. As far as I'm aware TFTCentral didn't use that trick in their review.
post #60 of 837
The XL2730Z does not use the mstar scaler so it does not respond to VT tweaks.
You can see Bishi's results here.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2222&start=20

The VT tweak was hard to explain. But it basically used a Lightboost workaround (the same trick lightboost used internally) which lowered the crosstalk by 25%.
The reason the brightness increased was because if the Vertical total ever deviated from the default VT for that refresh rate, the monitor would "switch back" to 60hz backlight pulse widths.
This is what caused the increase in brightness.

60hz used these pulse widths: 0.167ms (strobe duty 001)- 5.01ms (strobe duty 030).
Notice that this pulse width is equal to the refresh rate "response time (16.7ms) divided by 100?

100hz used 0.1ms - 3 ms
(0.1x100=10ms <--response time for 100hz refresh rate).
120hz used 0.083ms-2.5ms. 0.083ms x 100=8.3ms). Right on target.

using a "vertical total" tweak to lower the strobe crosstalk would cause all refresh rates to use the 60hz backlight pulse widths.
(the pulse width if you remember is how long the backlight remains on or off during a strobe).

so 120hz would use 0.167ms-5.01ms ---LONGER Pulses=brighter screen.

144hz could not use VT tweaks.

The reason the XL2420Z, XL2411Z and XL2720Z responded to vertical total tweaks was basically a "bug" (or rather a feature) of how the scaler used lightboost mode.
Lightboost used a VT 1500 tweak internally on these monitors.

You can test it side by side :
lightboost mode 120hz
Lightboost 10% (persistence 1.4ms).

Benq blur reduction: 120hz, VT 1500. Strobe duty = 009 (0.167x9=1.5ms).

The strobe crosstalk at the top/bottom of the screen, the positioning of the crosstalk and the brightness level were 100% identical.

The XL2730Z switched to the realtek scaler which does not have lightboost mode and does not respond to VT at all for strobe crosstalk frown.gif



@Ceeejaaay
The brightness (on XL2720Z with VT 1500, strobe duty 006, strobe phase 000, 100hz, 100 brightness with blur reduction ON was about equal to 20 brightness with blur reduction OFF.
Edited by Falkentyne - 9/27/15 at 4:40pm
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