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[Official] BenQ XL2730Z Owner's Club - Page 9

post #81 of 837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiotcrock View Post

How are the colors I have a XL2114z and the colors are bad unless it fixed in pre set Photo Mode =)
This is the only thing holding me off from buying another Benq

The quality will be much better than your XL2114z because the panel has an 8-bit color depth. This allows for much better color accuracy than your 6-bit w/ FRC monitor.

Check out the review here, they were able to reach 0.26 delta E color accuracy with the XL2730Z: http://www.displaylag.com/benq-xl2730z-review-144hz-amd-freesync-monitor/

You can read up on monitor calibration here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/calibrating_content.htm
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post #82 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeps5 View Post

The quality will be much better than your XL2114z because the panel has an 8-bit color depth. This allows for much better color accuracy than your 6-bit w/ FRC monitor.

Check out the review here, they were able to reach 0.26 delta E color accuracy with the XL2730Z: http://www.displaylag.com/benq-xl2730z-review-144hz-amd-freesync-monitor/

You can read up on monitor calibration here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/calibrating_content.htm

You're correct that the quality will be much better than on the XL2411Z, but your reasoning is not correct. The use of 6-bit + FRC or 'true 8-bit' has very little influence on 'colour accuracy'. Modern dithering algorithms are excellent at allowing monitors to faithfully reproduce a very broad range of shades, such that the 'average user' could not tell whether a monitor is 6-bit + FRC or 8-bit. As a matter of fact, when it was first discovered that many cheaper IPS models were using 6-bit + FRC people were shocked. That is because they simply couldn't believe what they were reading - and could not readily tell the difference. Likewise, the use of dithering does little to affect the accuracy readings given by a colorimeter. A significant number of cheaper IPS-type models still use 6-bit + FRC, of little detriment to the vast majority of users.

The reason the XL2730Z will give a much nicer image is simply because it is set up much better with respect to gamma tracking and overall colour balance than the XL2411Z. It really is apples and oranges in that respect. But when it comes to colour accuracy, you have to look beyond what a colorimeter is telling you about a little dot in the centre of the screen. Your eyes don't just focus on a tiny area in the middle of the screen and there are perceived differences for a given shade on a TN panel of this size depending on where on the screen it is displayed. Regardless of this, the XL2730Z is undoubtedly able to produce shades more accurately than the XL2411Z pre-calibration. But it has nothing to do with the number of bits per subpixel it is able to use without dithering.
post #83 of 837
I do agree, but you can't help notice that these modern 8-bit TN panels used in the 30Z and Swift are head and shoulders above previous TN's. That is my experience anyway. Whether that is just do to better electronics and/or a panel change beyond being true 8-bit is anyone's guess.

Along the same line of logic; why would manufactures increase to use 8-bit displays instead of 6-bit + FRC on their best TN panels if there isn't any difference. Is it for advertising? I've not really seen anyone advertise 8-Bit so I doubt it is solely for marketing reasons.
Edited by CallsignVega - 10/5/15 at 3:23pm
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post #84 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

You're correct that the quality will be much better than on the XL2411Z, but your reasoning is not correct. The use of 6-bit + FRC or 'true 8-bit' has very little influence on 'colour accuracy'. Modern dithering algorithms are excellent at allowing monitors to faithfully reproduce a very broad range of shades, such that the 'average user' could not tell whether a monitor is 6-bit + FRC or 8-bit. As a matter of fact, when it was first discovered that many cheaper IPS models were using 6-bit + FRC people were shocked. That is because they simply couldn't believe what they were reading - and could not readily tell the difference. Likewise, the use of dithering does little to affect the accuracy readings given by a colorimeter. A significant number of cheaper IPS-type models still use 6-bit + FRC, of little detriment to the vast majority of users.

The reason the XL2730Z will give a much nicer image is simply because it is set up much better with respect to gamma tracking and overall colour balance than the XL2411Z. It really is apples and oranges in that respect. But when it comes to colour accuracy, you have to look beyond what a colorimeter is telling you about a little dot in the centre of the screen. Your eyes don't just focus on a tiny area in the middle of the screen and there are perceived differences for a given shade on a TN panel of this size depending on where on the screen it is displayed. Regardless of this, the XL2730Z is undoubtedly able to produce shades more accurately than the XL2411Z pre-calibration. But it has nothing to do with the number of bits per subpixel it is able to use without dithering.

PCM2:

the original release of the XL2730Z was not much better in quality than the XL2720Z.
People said that when they sent in their monitors to Benq for the V002 firmware upgrade, Benq did more than just upgrade the firmware. Someone marked their panel before sending it in and they got a *completely* new panel back. You were in the forum thread on oc.uk. Everyone said that the image quality looked better on the V002 monitors than the V001 one, with the exact same OSD setings used, and this had nothing to do with overdrive (which only affects moving images). There was probably a physical hardware part that was swapped or changed or maybe some low level calibration, but if It were "just" a calibration, why did they receive completely different physical panels back than the ones they sent in ?
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post #85 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

PCM2:

the original release of the XL2730Z was not much better in quality than the XL2720Z.
People said that when they sent in their monitors to Benq for the V002 firmware upgrade, Benq did more than just upgrade the firmware. Someone marked their panel before sending it in and they got a *completely* new panel back. You were in the forum thread on oc.uk. Everyone said that the image quality looked better on the V002 monitors than the V001 one, with the exact same OSD setings used, and this had nothing to do with overdrive (which only affects moving images). There was probably a physical hardware part that was swapped or changed or maybe some low level calibration, but if It were "just" a calibration, why did they receive completely different physical panels back than the ones they sent in ?

A few points to bear in mind. There is a huge deal of inter-unit variation with similar models and it isn't the case, universally, that users found the monitor 'better' after the upgrade in firmware. I know the original revision I tested was pretty much spot on in many key criteria, and unless it was swapped to a model with a lighter screen surface or different panel type there was little if any room for improvement, technically, from an image quality perspective. I will not entertain speculation of the panel itself being changed, at least not for one of a different part number.

In the past BenQ do sometimes make tweaks to 'gamma' modes etc. and a lot of people actually prefer slightly higher gamma than '2.2' for deeper/richer colours. And personally, I prefer a slightly higher gamma on TN panels due to the weakening saturation (and lower gamma) lower down the screen. Given that the original revision I tested was '2.2' at 'Gamma 5' there is room for more flexibility there. That is the most logical explanation to me. No edge in accuracy or any improvement on a technical level, simply a bit of tweaking more to most users taste.
Edited by PCM2 - 10/6/15 at 12:00am
post #86 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

I do agree, but you can't help notice that these modern 8-bit TN panels used in the 30Z and Swift are head and shoulders above previous TN's. That is my experience anyway. Whether that is just do to better electronics and/or a panel change beyond being true 8-bit is anyone's guess.

Along the same line of logic; why would manufactures increase to use 8-bit displays instead of 6-bit + FRC on their best TN panels if there isn't any difference. Is it for advertising? I've not really seen anyone advertise 8-Bit so I doubt it is solely for marketing reasons.

I am fortunate enough to still own a Samsung S27A750D. I use it is one of my reference screens to this day and feel that in some respects (thank you glossy screen surface) it is actually superior to pretty much any of the newer 144Hz models. The problem is, people tend to compare this model to some of the previous 144Hz TN models; the likes of the BenQ XL Series of the past and the ASUS VG248QE. If you look at some of the G-SYNC models such as the AOC G2460PG (provided you get a good sample) and Philips 272G5DYEB, there is very little practical difference in colour quality on the XL2730Z/PG278Q. The use of 'true 8-bit' has been fantastic for advertising, no doubt about it. But some users actually dislike the slight flickering effect from dithering as well, so it is good to avoid for that reason as well.
post #87 of 837
Yes, that "Ultra-Clear" Samsung line of panels were incredibly impressive. I wonder what some of these modern TN panels would like like glossy.
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post #88 of 837
Just got this monitor and I have to say that I'm loving it biggrin.gif . The only thing I wish it had was a glossy ips screen but it still looks great nonetheless. thumb.gif
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post #89 of 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

I am fortunate enough to still own a Samsung S27A750D. I use it is one of my reference screens to this day and feel that in some respects (thank you glossy screen surface) it is actually superior to pretty much any of the newer 144Hz models. The problem is, people tend to compare this model to some of the previous 144Hz TN models; the likes of the BenQ XL Series of the past and the ASUS VG248QE. If you look at some of the G-SYNC models such as the AOC G2460PG (provided you get a good sample) and Philips 272G5DYEB, there is very little practical difference in colour quality on the XL2730Z/PG278Q. The use of 'true 8-bit' has been fantastic for advertising, no doubt about it. But some users actually dislike the slight flickering effect from dithering as well, so it is good to avoid for that reason as well.

Hello. I also have the S27A750D and only yesterday evening I got a new XL2730Z. Between the two I do like the glossy surface on the Samsung and overall I found the panel uniformity and color reproduction great.

Now I'm having a couple of problems with my BenQ and I'm hoping some people here might help.

I installed it yesterday and went through the usually process of quality inspection. Thankfully all seemed to be in order with no defective pixels, scratches or any other issues.

Then came the time to calibrate it. I switched to Standard mode and started changing settings by using the Lagom LCD monitor test pages (you can google this site if you don't know of it). Using the images I could calibrate everything rather well except for the gamma which seemed stuck at around 1.6 no matter what I tried. Good enough for now I said and started playing some games. I also installed the monitor's driver that came on the CD.

After the gaming session I was impressed with the vibrant colors, the free sync and the increase in sharpness. Still I wanted to try to get some more out of it so I went back to the Lagom site for additional calibration. This time however I noticed that I had some problems with the contrast. On the color chart I could hardly see some of the left most rectangles (the darker ones). But what annoyed me what that the right most red rectangles were the same. No matter what I tried (contrast, gamma change, windows settings) I could not get the last two red rectangles to show slightly different colors. They were the same.

I reset the settings several times, changed what I could but gave up and went to bed. To put salt in the wound today I checked the same color chart on my work monitor. Lo and behold - proper separation between all rectangles including the right most red ones. Also the gamma is spot on at 2.2 on this monitor.

So what gives? How come I can't move the gamma from a value of around 1.6 and how come I'm having issues with red contrast?

Maybe I was tired last night and couldn't see it properly, maybe installing the monitor driver did it (it was the only thing that changed during the gaming session between calibrations) but right now I'm kinda worried.

Did anyone else experience anything like this?
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post #90 of 837
That sounds like a bad factory calibration. My first XL2730Z had awful black levels (looked like black equalizer was maxed out, even though it was set to 0). I RMA'ed it since I couldn't get any reasonable color settings out of that monitor.

The XL2730Z I'm using now has like ~1.7 gamma on lagom using the Standard preset, but can get to ~2.2 using the Gamma 5 setting.
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