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MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning Owners Club - Page 15

post #141 of 1097
This was my dream card, until EK decided to NOT release a waterblock for whatever reason. frown.gif
post #142 of 1097
Just got this card and in my country the pricing is really weird. The price for GTX 980 Ti Strix,Lightning,Classified and AMP! Extreme is at same price around 790 USD blinksmiley.gif. And MSI Sea Hawk is around 100$ more expensive compare to Lightning. Seriously?And the card is soooo big. Can't wait to plugin this beast
post #143 of 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

This was my dream card, until EK decided to NOT release a waterblock for whatever reason. frown.gif
They just released a block for the KPE Ti too lol.
post #144 of 1097
Regarding LE vs normal lightning (and knowing nothing about how this things are manufactured) it occurs to me that they are binning fully manufactured cards instead of binning chips. That is, make lightnings with any working gpu that goes into the line, and then test the resulting card to see if they can reach the "normal" lightning speed. If not, label it as LE. It could be that is more efficient for them not having to predict performance and bin chips before making the card because they would have to cope with inaccuracies of such performance predictions.
post #145 of 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisxIxCross View Post

They just released a block for the KPE Ti too lol.

I know, and it pisses me off so much. Oh well I'm sure there are more EVGA/Kingpin fanboys than there are MSI/Lightning, so it makes sense for EK to release a Kingpin block but not Lightning. Still though EK made a block for every single Lightning card on both sides up until now. Really don't understand why they're breaking trend with the 980 Ti LIghtning.

And before someone tells me "just get a Kingpin" -- HELL NO. I'm voting with my wallet and not supporting EVGA's cash-grabbing ASIC binning BS. Plus I already got an MSI 980 Ti Gaming with 77.5% ASIC that does 1550/8000 at 1.25V game stable. Only cost $620 including shipping too since my bank was running an awesome cash back deal with TigerDirect. thumb.gif The same Kingpin card would've run me $1000 LOL. Might as well buy a Titan X for that price. rolleyes.gif

But yeah had there been a Lightning block I most definitely would've grabbed the Lightning.
post #146 of 1097
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiflash View Post

Regarding LE vs normal lightning (and knowing nothing about how this things are manufactured) it occurs to me that they are binning fully manufactured cards instead of binning chips. That is, make lightnings with any working gpu that goes into the line, and then test the resulting card to see if they can reach the "normal" lightning speed. If not, label it as LE. It could be that is more efficient for them not having to predict performance and bin chips before making the card because they would have to cope with inaccuracies of such performance predictions.

Very very very unlikely scenario.
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post #147 of 1097
Damn this card really disappointing me. My other MSI 6G OC almost the same. The ASIC is killing me. Even increase voltage seem does not help to OC any higher. The best thing about this card is even fan at full speed the fan noise are the silent between all GTX 980 Ti I ever heard. Never exceed 70c OC and around 63c-65c if not OC. 1st pic is maximum stable OC for 6G and 2nd pic is maximum stable OC for Lightning. Luckily in my country Lightning price is the same as Classified,Strix,AMP! Extreme and G1 Gaming around 770-790usd. If not im pretty sure gonna regret this decision


Edited by crashoverburn - 10/4/15 at 4:48pm
post #148 of 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashoverburn View Post

Damn this card really disappointing me. My other MSI 6G OC almost the same. The ASIC is killing me. Even increase voltage seem does not help to OC any higher. The best thing about this card is even fan at full speed the fan noise are the silent between all GTX 980 Ti I ever heard. Never exceed 70c OC and around 63c-65c if not OC. 1st pic is maximum stable OC for 6G and 2nd pic is maximum stable OC for Lightning. Luckily in my country Lightning price is the same as Classified,Strix,AMP! Extreme and G1 Gaming around 770-790usd. If not im pretty sure gonna regret this decision


So much wrong with this post.

Most all good cards from any vendor will about max out maxwell without cold tempa. The asics stuff is really getting old, it basically doesnt matter unless ln2. Increasing volts again doeant really help much with maxwell. It scales with temps more than volts.
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post #149 of 1097
Hurm, so EVGA KINGPIN ASIC thing is just rip off the money from consumer?I see even Gigabyte G1 Gaming can outperform my Lightning OC. Damn it. BTW when I spend 800$ on premium card, its better to get higher ASIC to please my eyes even it does not do a thing tongue.gif
post #150 of 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunneY View Post

So much wrong with this post.

Most all good cards from any vendor will about max out maxwell without cold tempa. The asics stuff is really getting old, it basically doesnt matter unless ln2. Increasing volts again doeant really help much with maxwell. It scales with temps more than volts.

Well it's a bit different and more complicated with Maxwell.

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30273&postcount=57
Quote:
Honestly speaking, I think most end users don't even realize how maxwell gpus are voltage capped at ambient type cooling. I can tell by many of the comments at OC.net, elsewhere, and also here in these card XOC bios threads. Especially compared to kepler. KP 780ti scaled great on voltage with air/water temps. Basically, more voltage = more clocks no matter what temperature.
With 980 and later gpus including titanX, the scaling on air/water has all but almost gone. I would say about 95% of all maxwell 980,titan-X, and 980ti gpus NO MATTER what vga brand pcb it is on, DO NOT SCALE with more voltage than 1.25v-1.275v at temps warmer than 25c or so. There is no magical bios that can effectively remove this.

This is exactly why almost every moderate-good asic titanX, 980, and yes 980ti clock around 1550mhz MAX AVERAGE at say 45-60C loading temps.
If you put 0c and colder on the card, you will see MUCH different behavior than what you see on air (green garbage all over screen when raising volts over 1.23-1.25vv or so)
Cards with very good ASIC value (75% and up) will tend to have the most "overclocking", but just like about every other maxwell gpu, they cannot overvolt past 1.23v-1.25v.
So highest asic cards like 80% +are almost always going to be the ones that can 1600+ on air/water, and again they do it pretty much WITHOUT overvolting over 1.23v-1.25v. Maxwell gpus with lower asic value like 65% will not be so great at air/water because these low asic gpus need voltage to scale compared to match the overclock of the high asic gpus( USING SAME USABLE VOLTAGE 1.23-1.25v)


The bios's I posted basically allow you to set a higher voltage on air/water. Some gpus can scale more, some cant, some actually will NEED more voltage than was previously needed to run same frequency. All different.

Have a better understanding now?

And this very long post as well:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1565834/evga-com-evga-to-offer-ability-to-purchase-980ti-kinpin-cards-by-asic/120_30#post_24201543
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Right on..

Based on the comments in the thread, maybe best its best to let you guys know(who don't already) a little bit about what ASIC is and how it relates to this card or any other card for that matter past or present.
I'll hang out here a bit and check back often to answer any questions by OC.net'rs about the card, ASIC, pricing, air performance, ln2 performance, ANYTHING smile.gif.
I would rather respond with the correct information directly to someone, than see that person repeating the wrong information. They haven't started selling just yet AFIK..
Ill answer some of the questions I've seen asked already to get a start.

ASIC is not a new "measurement" , its been around for a very long time. Only just recently is it available to be seen through public utility though(gpuz). It represents a few measurements on a GPU, not just one as many think. Basically it measures the performance ability of a gpu at a given voltage. There is another measurement of leakage as well. These two values represent "ASIC" as you guys know it.
Without talking about numbers or percentages yet, higher ASIC quality means a GPU will require less voltage to run at say default specs. What does this mean roughly? It means that this GPU is using less voltage and is generating less heat per clock than a lower ASIC counterpart. HOWEVER it also means the voltage limit of what it can take on air as well as the voltage response getting weaker/noisy. Here comes the leakage part. Highest ASIC gpus have also have the highest leakage, low ASIC gpus have lowest leakage. The two values scale linearly. This is why the lowest ASIC cards are the ones that can take loads of voltage on air, and the response is good. Usually these low asic cards can OUT OVERCLOCK their higher asic counterparts because they end up scaling higher on clocks maxed out with the benefit of the voltage increase that the high ASIC cards cannot. They are stuck on lower volts because the leakage is already very high.

How does ASIC relate to air overclocking? Typically a higher ASIC gpu will overclock nicely on default voltage/air cooling, yielding highest overclocks WITHOUT any voltage increase. Less voltage/less heat. Lower ASIC gpu will need to use more voltage for a given clock as the higher ASIC one. Back in the Kepler days, this meant great air/water overclocking on our 680's and 780's. I remember posting a thread at evga explaining to people that they needed to use 1.4v+ (at dmm) to max out their classified gpus on air. God I miss those days smile.gif. Back then, the best gpus on air/water were the low asic ones, they could always oc/ov the highest. Times have changed, and this doesn't apply to maxwell however.

How does ASIC relate to Maxwell Air overclocking? With maxwell gpus the above definitions of ASIC do not apply Well you guys know maxwell 980,980ti, titanx have ambient cooling voltage limit on what v's you can give it on air/water. That's just the way it is. Its been proven over and over on every single manuf brand 980,titanx, 980ti. kp980 owners as well, no different. These gpus don't like voltage on air over 1.22-1.23v usually max. Just green garbage all over the screen with more, no better clocks. Best clocks usually achieved with stock voltage or maybe slightly higher.
So given what we know about ASIC quality and the voltage scaling capability of 980,980ti,t-x on air/water(NONE), it indicates the best gpus on 980Ti, will be the ones that can overclock the highest on default voltage or near default voltage. Ever noticed why almost every single review of 980ti (any brand) is around 1500mhz? The reviewer never can never add much voltage for better OC result.
I'm mostly an Ln2 person, but some users complaining about 980kpe not overclocking on air prompted me to try and make a better bios for ambient that would allow voltage. I managed a slight improvement that works on some cards, that's about it. But I learned a lot about the scaling of Maxwell on Air during that time and how we could if anything improve on this with KP980TI.

How does ASIC relate to LN2 overclocking and more specifically kp980ti?
As explained above, higher asic = higher leakage. Leakage is actually a good thing and can be contained on LN2 cooling. Cards with more leakage will run a bit hotter, usually extending cold limits on gpus and getting more core MHZ on LN2. Every overclocker wants every last mhz right? Higher ASIC GPUS also have better memory controllers and typically can overclock the memory very high on LN2. Lower ASIC gpus usually are not so good at driving the memory on Ln2 and the overclocker will lose a lot of MHZ when going cold.
Lastly, every serious overclocker knows the highest ASIC gpus use the least amount of voltage for any given clock. This means these gpus will always have the highest potential for scaling to the absolute highest clock on LN2, because most 980ti gpus max out around the same voltage level on the high end max max ln2 as well. Wouldn't you want the most clock you could get for that voltage smile.gif. KP card pushes them all the way. Unless its a lemon gpu (cant test every single one on ln2 lol), it will max out on this card.

Does high ASIC guarantee highest clocks on air? NO. The other part of ASIC which is Leakage is high on these, so that can actually hold back some high asic gpus on air. This doesn't mean its bad on Ln2 as well, and usually the contrary. I Tested around 15 pieces or so of KP980Ti these days, all different asic levels. Some as high as 81% all the way to 64% (which we wont even sell smile.gif the average clocks on air were roughly 1550mhz Lowest was 1526mhz, highest was 1592mhz . Seemed like every card went to 1539mhz or so smile.gif Most of the higher asic cards did as expected and hit the upper 1550's. None could pass 1600mhz, but some came really close! Those were mostly higher ASIC%'s. You should know that every kp980ti is binned gpu and even the minimum ASIC level for any card is very high compared to average. A 70-72% asic card is a great card. Reviewers should be hitting low to mid 1500's on avg and some cards hitting close to 1600. If your an air/water guy and don't plan to run ln2, I think no matter what asic level of card you get, it will do mid-low 1500's and there is a chance on all kp 980Tis regardless of asic to hit the magic 1600. Still need some luck too, leakage can limit this. For the hardcore users or the ones that may run ln2, I would think more seriously about asic and the time/money you can save buy getting something closer to what you want. Being an Ln2 overclocker myself, I feel this buy is mostly for you.

Does ASIC % guarantee highest clocks on LN2? No it doesn't, it is only an indicator of what to expect. EVGA is giving the chance for customers to zero in on exactly on what you want. Some users will try many cards to find the highest asics for best LN2 overclocking, its not a new thing. The highest ASIC gpus will almost always be the best ones on LN2 as explained above. These are the users we mostly are targeting with this. The ones that end up buying and trying lots of cards to find the one gem, almost always a high ASIC card. They will end up spending much more than the price difference of kp980ti high asic and wasting lots of time in the process. This is geared for them.

Are we binning gpus away from other cards to make this one (classy or other)?. LOL I wish, but no way that's possible or anyone would even let me do that haha. For sure there will be guys on classys or other cards who find a high asic gpu here or there and im sure they will let us all know they paid XXXX lower than what someone paid for their KP and still got a high asic.
KP980ti is very special card in many ways hw wise. This is just one special added buying option for our more hardcore users on first few batches directly from us, that's all smile.gif

Anything I didn't cover or you want to know something specifically about the card, I'm happy to answer.
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