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ACER Predator X34 Owners Club - Page 51

post #501 of 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by -terabyte- View Post

Unless that piece of hardware is also the cause of the scanlines we will still see them on these monitors shipping now.

I doubt it. I have the WFS issue but no scan lines whatsoever.

EDIT: anyone knows what "that piece of hardware" is? Anything we should worry about on the long term? I think Acer owes us early adopters at least some explanation or statement, but fat chance that will happen...
Edited by Alaindor - 11/21/15 at 3:01am
post #502 of 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyumi View Post

I remember getting scan-lines on the first overclockable 1440p IPS monitor the Overlord Tempest (same thing as the Korean Catleap monitors). The lines became more prominent the more it over overclocked past 60hz. My complaints were quickly squashed by all the "elite" FPS fanboys who didn't care about anything except faster FPS. I know people have linked this to the G-sync module but it's quite a coincidence the same thing is happening with yet another "overclockable (results may vary)" monitor.

Due to all the flaming, and Mikey flaming the person who created this thread (Metros), I kept my mouth shut this entire time.
But I think I need to say something.

First, the scanlines that you people see are there even with Gsync *disabled*. it's just VERY VERY faint, but it's there if you train yourself to look carefully for the very slight luminance variance at the same pattern. That faint pattern isn't noticeable under normal use but it *IS* there.

They just increase when gsync is enabled.

This pattern is not something new. We've been discussing this type of artifact for years. And it is precisely this type of artifact that has limited monitor refresh rates to 120-144hz for the last God knows how many years.

The original Lightboost TN panels (both 120 and 144hz variants) would show this type of artifact when Lightboost mode was enabled. Some samples would show it even with Lightboost disabled, at 120 or 144hz. If it was distracting at 144hz then it was worth an RMA.

I've seen those exact scanlines on my XL2720Z when I use a Vertical Total VT 1500 tweak for blur reduction (crosstalk reduction) And sure enough they are mostly on the left and top area of the screen.
And as others have said, the same artifacts appear on some Qinx monitors when trying to overclock them to 120hz.

And on monitors with factory unlocked refresh rates (like those Korean qinx 24" units that use the same panel as the asus VG248QE, the same scanlines appear when you overclock them past 180 hz.

If Acer is only warranting the panels to 60hz refresh rate and the scanlines appear if you don't overclock, then I don't see any reason to complain. But they should not be appearing in gsync mode at all.

However please keep in mind that the entire reason they appear in gsync mode is the exact same reason you get them in Lightboost mode.--panels being pushed beyond normal voltage and timing specifications. That's basically all I'm trying to say.
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WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
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post #503 of 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

Due to all the flaming, and Mikey flaming the person who created this thread (Metros), I kept my mouth shut this entire time.
But I think I need to say something.

First, the scanlines that you people see are there even with Gsync *disabled*. it's just VERY VERY faint, but it's there if you train yourself to look carefully for the very slight luminance variance at the same pattern. That faint pattern isn't noticeable under normal use but it *IS* there.

They just increase when gsync is enabled.

This pattern is not something new. We've been discussing this type of artifact for years. And it is precisely this type of artifact that has limited monitor refresh rates to 120-144hz for the last God knows how many years.

The original Lightboost TN panels (both 120 and 144hz variants) would show this type of artifact when Lightboost mode was enabled. Some samples would show it even with Lightboost disabled, at 120 or 144hz. If it was distracting at 144hz then it was worth an RMA.

I've seen those exact scanlines on my XL2720Z when I use a Vertical Total VT 1500 tweak for blur reduction (crosstalk reduction) And sure enough they are mostly on the left and top area of the screen.
And as others have said, the same artifacts appear on some Qinx monitors when trying to overclock them to 120hz.

And on monitors with factory unlocked refresh rates (like those Korean qinx 24" units that use the same panel as the asus VG248QE, the same scanlines appear when you overclock them past 180 hz.

If Acer is only warranting the panels to 60hz refresh rate and the scanlines appear if you don't overclock, then I don't see any reason to complain. But they should not be appearing in gsync mode at all.

However please keep in mind that the entire reason they appear in gsync mode is the exact same reason you get them in Lightboost mode.--panels being pushed beyond normal voltage and timing specifications. That's basically all I'm trying to say.

Hi Falkentyne,

Agree with most of what you said.

But "panels being pushed beyond normal voltage and timing specifications.' is quite contrary to the behaviour of the scanlines. They appear at lower refresh rates. And at higher refresh rates they are hardly visible. Terms like "agressive overclock" and "It's because of g-sync" are incorrectly being used in this thread in reference to the scanlines. I understand they've appeared in various monitors before but I'd like to know the root cause.

I agree that the lines are visible (slight luminance variance) at any setting if I look at the monitor carefully focusing my vision on one portion.

EDIT: You seem to know about panels. Do you have any sources you can share for learning about vertical blanks and pixel clocks? I've tried but I am getting old sites that I'm not sure are relevant now.
Edited by Mountainlifter - 11/21/15 at 6:44am
post #504 of 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountainlifter 
EDIT: You seem to know about panels. Do you have any sources you can share for learning about vertical blanks and pixel clocks? I've tried but I am getting old sites that I'm not sure are relevant now.

ToastyX on monitortests.com is the one to ask about pixel clocks.
I also didn't read much of this thread so I didn't know the scanlines appeared at lower refresh rates and went away when you went up...yes that's worth an RMA if it's not a firmware bug that can be user flashed.

And the Vertical total stuff was a bug in the Mstar scaler (8556T) based Benq blur reduction monitors (Benq admitted that was a bug we were exploiting) that was used to good effect to lower blur reduction strobe crosstalk. (it had no effect in the Realtek based XL2730Z).
SB Rig
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WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
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Puretrak Talent 
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SB Rig
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
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post #505 of 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

ToastyX on monitortests.com is the one to ask about pixel clocks.
I also didn't read much of this thread so I didn't know the scanlines appeared at lower refresh rates and went away when you went up...yes that's worth an RMA if it's not a firmware bug that can be user flashed.

And the Vertical total stuff was a bug in the Mstar scaler (8556T) based Benq blur reduction monitors (Benq admitted that was a bug we were exploiting) that was used to good effect to lower blur reduction strobe crosstalk. (it had no effect in the Realtek based XL2730Z).

if you're interested you can read my long post about it here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1573121/acer-predator-x34-displays-show-your-images-or-experience-here/370#post_24609304

It appears at lower refreshes. So, in the pendulum demo when people switch G-sync ON and OFF and see the scanlines come and go, they're actually just switching between 100Hz and 40Hz and the latter shows scanlines. Hence, it is not actually related to G-sync VRR operation at all.

It also shows right on the desktop if we set OC to 100Hz in the monitor's OSD and set 50Hz in the NVCP.

Very very strange behaviour.

Will check out ToastyX's stuff. Thanks.

I was wondering if creating a custom resolution in NVCP with manual timings might counteract these special scanlines. Easy to understand material is few and far between.
post #506 of 3066
Falkentyne, I'm sorry that you think people have been 'flaming' each other in this thread. The fact is, there has been no flaming in this thread at all. We've been discussing the monitor and its associated problems. You must be thinking about the other thread, which 'has' been heated. Please re-read the comments in this thread. You'll see that the topic has been solely on the monitor. (This is actually the first time the topic has left the monitor).

Also, I'm sorry... but you owe me an apology. I have not been flaming Metros. I've been posting for three weeks now, fixated on my new monitor. I've been posting 'only' about my monitor.

You can see, as well, that I've not participated at all in that other thread - the one where there actually has been flaming.

Sorry if I'm sounding a little defensive, but it was unfair of you to accuse me of flaming the OP when that hasn't happened. This has actually been an extremely helpful thread, with many people participating.

Kind of surprised by this, actually.
post #507 of 3066
Have we given up on discussing this monitor?

I've spent the weekend playing Fallout 4, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, and one of the expansions from Rome 2 Total War. One thing's evident. My two GTX 980s are struggling with cutting edge (unoptimized?) titles at 3440x1440. Gsync is saving me in SO MANY situations.

How are the scanlines? - well, I have them, but I can't see them, because I've learned how to eliminate them by adjusting the overclock. The three titles above, for example, all frequently dip below 60 FPS. So this weekend, I've had the overclcok on my X34 turned off. The scanlines haven't even crossed my mind once this weekend. Out of sight, out of mind.

In about ten days from now, Just Cause 3 will release, and I'm hoping it will run at 100 FPS on my machine. So for that title, I'll ramp up my overclock to 100HZ. Honestly, the scanline issue, for me, was overblown.

It would be cool if Acer acknowledged the problem, but ultimately I'm happy with my display... as long as the problem doesn't get worse.
post #508 of 3066
Some of you people are a strange lot....its a gaming monitor, you dont like it return it and get something else...instead people sit there and say i suck at testing and the smart ones returned it...you gotta be kidding me. Dont buy launch day cutting edge products if you want perfection. But its $1400 theyll say......then return it and use the swift for crying out loud...or use your "perfect" old panel.
post #509 of 3066
It's a gaming monitor, so there's no reason to complain when the monitor suffers of various defects such as scanlines?

funfordcobra's talking is a bit harsh but I agree with him, I don't understand how some people can accept to deal with scanlines, either because they don't see them, don't care (because it's a gaming monitor rolleyes.gif) or they're doing some concessions as Mikey's with OC setting depending on the game.

Today, I received my X34 replacement from Amazon, October built, and guess what, prominent scanlines are there.
Of the 3 X34 I got, all of them had scanlines. This is why I'm now convinced the problem is widespreaded and Mountainlifter researches make me confident in that way.

This monitor would be great without these awful horizontal lines but it seems there's serious QC issues from Acer. Knowing that brand, I should have to lower my expectations (experienced same QC problems with 3-4 XB270HU).
post #510 of 3066
what drivers are u guys using at the mo?
i have no sli option on the new 359.00 driver....
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