Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Serial VS Parallel 9.6LPM
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Serial VS Parallel 9.6LPM - Page 17

post #161 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

https://www.smcworld.com/temperature_controller/en/pdf/series/HRS_en.pdf
Cooling compacity is affected by flow rate.
Higherflow rate = to more cooling avalible
Refer to refrence 2



If flow rate is greater (Qv) in this case.
The water tempertuare will have to decreace to make up the cooling of 1400 Watts,

at more extreme situations. will insane flow rates.
The fluid can be room temperture and 99999W of cooling is cooled (zero Circulating fluid temperature difference @T)

Edit: For finding out this formular. I can now calculate the actuall ammount of heat being generated in any watercooling systems

No one is saying this isnt true, It is true, more flow rate = better cooling. You are however missing 1 major aspect, Lets give you a test tell me why you are wrong.

Google will suffice as to why you are wrong. Think about that Faster Flow = Better cooling however in reality cooling does not increase by much and at a certain point not at all.

By the way that is a waterchiller you linked and totally irrelevant to this convo. Phase Change and Radiator cooling are totally different things.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/1/16 at 8:51pm
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
post #162 of 243
Same with a radiator inserted.
More flow means more chill
post #163 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

Same with a radiator inserted.
More flow means more chill

No it doesnt and there is a reason lets see if you can figure it out smile.gif

I will give you a hint, think Heatsources. Most people can name heat sources in a watercooling loop but some people leave out a big one.

Also please realize that no one is debating that a faster flow will improve cooling. The OPs theory is correct his results are what is wrong he has made the difference out to be way way way more than it is.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/1/16 at 8:59pm
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
post #164 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

No it doesnt and there is a reason lets see if you can figure it out smile.gif

I will give you a hint, think Heatsources. Most people can name heat sources in a watercooling loop but some people leave out a big one.

radiators affect the inlet of water temperure of the heat source. Nothing more nothing else
Same rule applies. Where did I go wrong?
In this case, were refering to T1 Outlet temperature. The tmepertuare of water which enters the heat source

Don't give me a hint
I want you tell me, I'll don't think I will ever be able to figure it out
Edited by Iwamotto Tetsuz - 2/1/16 at 9:14pm
post #165 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

You tell me, I'll never be able to figure it out

radiators affect the inlet of water temperure of the heat source. Nothing more nothing else
Same rule applies


I was talking about "More flow means more chill", and no it doesn't. It does in theory however it doesn't in practice.

The problem with the theory of increase my flow rate decrease my temps is.

We are going to play cause and effect for a second okay smile.gif.

Cause - You increase pump speed amount of pumps
Effect - Your flow rate goes up
Effect - your pumps produce more heat, any pumps you add or change also increases pumps heat in the loop.

Cause - Your flow rate goes up.
Effect - Your cooling potential goes up
Effect - Your pumps create more friction which adds more heat to your loop.

Do you see now? yes increasing flow rate increases cooling capacity, however raising your flow rate also increases heat generated. This is the issue the more flow the more heat the more heat the more cooling needed. That is why we say that over 1gpm the returns are negligible.

As to achieve a higher flow rate introduces more heat so anything you gain in cooling capacity is used to disperse the heat that you have gained from the higher flow rate. This is more apparent when adding pumps then it is doing a full parallel setup. However even in the case of a full parallel setup you are still creating issues.

You have friction heat due to the flow moving faster.
You have split water across the least path of restriction, in the OPs case his CPU block is the least restrictive so it will get the most flow with the GPUs getting much less.

Again No one ever said that OPs fully parallel loop wont decrease his temps. It will, we simply said that the amount that it will decrease is no where near his claims at best he may see a 2-3c temp difference on his CPU and most likely a rise on GPUs as his CPU is getting more of the flow. He is not cutting his Delta in half like he claims that I can promise you.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/1/16 at 9:22pm
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
post #166 of 243
In practice, I doubt heat generated by pump is too small, thefore is obsoulete.

Another reason for increaced temps, Is because there is better heat transfer.
Thus more heat of the computer components are disipated into the water other.
having a lesser temperture diffrrence of component to waterblock
post #167 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

In practice, I doubt heat generated by pump is too small, thefore is obsoulete.

Another reason for increaced temps, Is because there is better heat transfer.
Thus more heat of the computer components are disipated into the water other than having a lesser temperture diffrrence of component to waterblock


doh.gif

It is not obsolete, I'm sorry I forgot you and toolmaker are experts and water cooling started just before you started doing it. Here is reality, water cooling has been around for more than 15 years, this has been tested and retested by many people way smarter than either of us or anyone else in this thread most likely. They have shown they have proven that you are wrong, I am sorry but what you think is irrelvant as it has been tested many times and has been proven!

So its obsolete okay so is a CPU obsolete? The TDP of a 6770k is 95ws, a d5 at full speed is 40ws that means that 2 d5s can create almost as much heat in a loop as a 6770k @ stock. Ya that is super obsolete.


A quote from Martin,
"You can gain some performance with more than one pump, but it’s not as much as you might hope for. Typically the CPU block and radiator performance curves relative to flow rate are not much more than 1-3 degrees or so beyond the 1GPM rule and many times much less than that. It is a factor of flow rate gains and pump heat dump where more pump does increase flow and performance however it negatively impacts the performance by adding heat into the loop. Generally you can see gains upwards of about 40W or so and much more than that can actually cause more harm than good. 10-25W worth of pumping power is typically plenty good. More can be better, but more is not always better. Two smaller 10-25W pumps in series are a good combo of providing near optimal pumping performance if you’re aiming to get every last degree out of your parts. Some have pushed to even more, but diminishing returns present themselves fairly quickly past about 40-60W worth of pumping power."

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/pump-planning-guide/comment-page-1/
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
~Shadow~ V3.0
(20 items)
 
Night Hawk
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6960x Rampage V Extreme Black Edition Undecided x3 Undecided 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Undecided Undecided EK Sumprecey EVO EK Sumprecey EVO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Undecided Undecided Windows 10 Undecided 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Black Widow Wltimate  EVGA G2 1600w Case Labs STH10 Razer Deathadder (2013)(Modded with Blue LEDs) 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Goliath  Razer Electra, Corsair Vengeance 2000, Kingston... EK Vardars 140mm razer nostromos  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Evga Micro 2 X99 EVGA Superclocked + 980ti Gskill Ripjaws V 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
Up in the AIR Up in the air still.  Windows 10 XFX 850 W pro.  
Case
Hex Gear R40 
  hide details  
Reply
post #168 of 243
Then thats a bad pump. if 40W of heat is disipated into the water

Thats just rated power draw of the pump I thought 40Wats of power used I thought.
I don't think it means 40W of heat is generated in and disipated into the water

Friciton of the moving parts generaing heat could also be calculated I reckon. (refering to pumps generating heat in the water)
I think there might be a formular online which we can search up thumb.gif
post #169 of 243
What on earth is going on in here now.
It's like the ravings of lunatics.

You can have all the flow rate you want but if there is no air flow over the radiator it's not going to cool the fluid.

If the cooling fluid comes from the tap then it'll be a fixed temp and if you up the flow rate very high then you can get very high cooling effects. Water cooling loops are not fixed temp. Increase the flow rate and the fluid just comes back from the rad at a higher temp. There is an increasingly minor effect on cooling capacity.

Flow rate does not create cooling effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

https://www.smcworld.com/temperature_controller/en/pdf/series/HRS_en.pdf
Cooling compacity is affected by flow rate.
Higherflow rate = to more cooling avalible
Refer to refrence 2



If flow rate is greater (Qv) in this case.
The water tempertuare will have to decreace to make up the cooling of 1400 Watts,

at more extreme situations. will insane flow rates.
The fluid can be room temperture and 99999W of cooling is cooled (zero Circulating fluid temperature difference @T)

Edit: For finding out this formular. I can now calculate the actuall ammount of heat being generated in any watercooling systems

Yes, you can find out the heat generated. But, if you double the flow rate then the circulated fluid temp difference halves. So the wattage stays the same.

A zero circulated temp difference means zero wattage, not infinate wattage.
Kusanagi
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA GTX 780 SC Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY16GX3M2A2133C11 16GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB X2 EK Supremacy Aqua Computer Aquaero 6 Pro Aqua Computer D5 USB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Aquacomputer MPS 400 flow meter EK-CoolStream PE 360 EK-Coolstream PE 240 Noiseblocker Eloop B12-PS 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Vardar F2 EK-FC Titan Acetal & Nickel EK-RAM Monarch X4 Clean CSQ - Acetal+Nickel EK-D5 X-RES 140 CSQ 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit Samsung S27A750d LG E2290V-SN Silverstone Strider Plus 850W ST85F-P 
Case
Corsair Obsidian 750D 
  hide details  
Reply
Kusanagi
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA GTX 780 SC Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY16GX3M2A2133C11 16GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB X2 EK Supremacy Aqua Computer Aquaero 6 Pro Aqua Computer D5 USB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Aquacomputer MPS 400 flow meter EK-CoolStream PE 360 EK-Coolstream PE 240 Noiseblocker Eloop B12-PS 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Vardar F2 EK-FC Titan Acetal & Nickel EK-RAM Monarch X4 Clean CSQ - Acetal+Nickel EK-D5 X-RES 140 CSQ 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit Samsung S27A750d LG E2290V-SN Silverstone Strider Plus 850W ST85F-P 
Case
Corsair Obsidian 750D 
  hide details  
Reply
post #170 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

You can have all the flow rate you want but if there is no air flow over the radiator it's not going to cool the fluid.
I'm using a radiator wihout fans attached for an extreme example, where we can turn a 10W cooling into a monster cooling machine.
The better the cooling the lower the inlet temperture to the source that needs to be cooled.
best we can do is room temp.

Edit: with refrence to radiators, all it does is cool the heated up liquid caused by the heat source which is the cpu.
Best cooling able to be achieved is room temperture liquid flowing into the cpu

The cooling of a radiator given out is really small when no fans are attached, but will still provide some form of cooling. Therefore I am using it for an extreme example
Edited by Iwamotto Tetsuz - 2/1/16 at 10:03pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Serial VS Parallel 9.6LPM