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VRM related questions - help a noob out :) - Page 3

post #21 of 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

*snip*

I finally got around to taking off the heatsink:



Then I looked at the components long and hard with a magnifying glass thumb.gif

And scribbled this diagram:



What can you tell me about the VRM based on this? smile.gif
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post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post

I finally got around to taking off the heatsink:



Then I looked at the components long and hard with a magnifying glass thumb.gif

And scribbled this diagram:



What can you tell me about the VRM based on this? smile.gif

Can you also tell me what these little chips are and tell me about the top part of the VRM as well?


Out of the four you looked at, the top three are CPU phases with two PH4030AL as low-side FETs and a PH6030AL as the high-side, these are pretty high quality FETs and I bet they are used b/c of low phase count so that you wont get overheating. On the bottom of the VRM looks to be a separate VRM, the last phase with only one high and low-side MOSFET and the 6x=2E chip (I have seen this before but I can't find what it is, it is 100% a Richtek part since they use these stupid markings, maybe a single phase VRM of some sorts, the only way to find out is to have Richtek's marking codes to translate back, but one could measure the outputs of the IC if they knew what to look for, but it most likely isn't worth anyone's time since it looks like a single phase PWM with integrated drivers for) it also looks like the single phase is for VCCSA, but can you also take pictures of the back of the motherboard and below the CPU socket? .
    
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post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Can you also tell me what these little chips are

It says CH6 on them. Well, except that I couldn't get a look at the two on the left which were covered by the heatsink which I had already reinstalled earlier. Presumably they are also CH6.
Quote:
and tell me about the top part of the VRM as well?

Here's an updated diagram :]




Quote:
Out of the four you looked at, the top three are CPU phases with two PH4030AL as low-side FETs and a PH6030AL as the high-side, these are pretty high quality FETs and I bet they are used b/c of low phase count so that you wont get overheating.
Nice!
Quote:
but can you also take pictures of the back of the motherboard and below the CPU socket? .

Sure

Below CPU socket:


Back of the mobo:


Top VRM, back:


Side VRM, back:

Edited by lehtv - 10/3/15 at 2:56pm
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post #24 of 30
Hey so it looks like you identified 3 of those little drivers "CH6" and ASUS obfuscates their PWM on purpose so you can't know what it is so i can't tell you much about what brands they are using other than on the high-end where there aren't too many options. Those other two also seem to be drivers and that would mean that you have 5 of these drivers. One is used to control two phases for iGPU, and four are used for four phases for the VCore. The PWM seems to support at least 4+1 phase operation, but I don't know or think it has integrated drivers. Maybe someone can do more thorough investigation into it if they want and find out what parts are used (ASUS usually uses IR and Richtek, but could also be using other brands), but what is important is that it is 4+2+1 phases for the VCore, iGPU, and VCCSA (VCCSA is a guess but an educated one since more emphasis is usually put on VCCSA power than VCCIO power) in the VRM area I am unsure on the VCCIO it could just be using a linear regulator or is to the right of the M.2 connector or works off of the VCCSA rail, its really unimportant.





I put the VCCGT in blue, VCC in red, and VCCSA (or VCCIO) in green i think.
    
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post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks!

Interesting to note that the VRM heat sink actually leaves one of the CPU phases uncovered. Do you think load is divided equally between the phases, or whether the heatsinked phases have a higher load? I'm just wondering whether running a high overclock would put the uncovered CPU phase at a higher risk of failing, in the same way that entry level boards which don't even have VRM heatsinks are not 'supposed' to handle high overclocks.

What about the caps - anything to note about them? e.g. how does 'bulk capacitance output' of this board relate to the ones listed in the vrmlist, and does this even matter?

I looked for a bit more info on the components you named, and found these data sheets:

PH4030AL (low side FET, 2 per CPU phase)
http://datasheet.octopart.com/PH4030AL,115-NXP-Semiconductors-datasheet-13717708.pdf

PH6030AL (high side FET)
http://igorx.irk.ru/datasheet/fYk36mr8LKSkLFkLwcKR.pdf

But I'm not sure how to interpret the specs, and it doesn't help that I have no background in electrical engineering whatsoever. Which is the higher rated or lower rated part? PH4030AL has higher max current and wattage ratings, but PH6030AL has higher "drain-source on-state resistance".
Edited by lehtv - 10/4/15 at 2:10pm
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehtv View Post

Thanks!

Interesting to note that the VRM heat sink actually leaves one of the CPU phases uncovered. Do you think load is divided equally between the phases, or whether the heatsinked phases have a higher load? I'm just wondering whether running a high overclock would put the uncovered CPU phase at a higher risk of failing, in the same way that entry level boards which don't even have VRM heatsinks are not 'supposed' to handle high overclocks.

What about the caps - anything to note about them? e.g. how does 'bulk capacitance output' of this board relate to the ones listed in the vrmlist, and does this even matter?

I looked for a bit more info on the components you named, and found these data sheets:

PH4030AL (low side FET, 2 per CPU phase)
http://datasheet.octopart.com/PH4030AL,115-NXP-Semiconductors-datasheet-13717708.pdf

PH6030AL (high side FET)
http://igorx.irk.ru/datasheet/fYk36mr8LKSkLFkLwcKR.pdf

But I'm not sure how to interpret the specs, and it doesn't help that I have no background in electrical engineering whatsoever. Which is the higher rated or lower rated part? PH4030AL has higher max current and wattage ratings, but PH6030AL has higher "drain-source on-state resistance".
The PWM can apply load balancing depending on the temperature of the phases, in this case I doubt it's an issue that the single phase isn't covered. The fact that one phase doesn't have a heatsink but the other three do doesn't really mean much, it could even mean there isn't much need for a heatsink b/c of the low power draw of Skylake CPUs.

The bulk capacitance is hard to determine because it's a bit harder to tell which capacitors are bunched together.

The only real way to see how it works is to try haha, I think you will be able to get a decent overclock out of the board, the board probably does have limits in place so you can't break the VRM, that being said if you keep constant airflow over the area you will be better off most of the time.

The MOSFETs are pretty solid and their arrangement is good (2L1H).
    
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post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

The PWM can apply load balancing depending on the temperature of the phases, in this case I doubt it's an issue that the single phase isn't covered. The fact that one phase doesn't have a heatsink but the other three do doesn't really mean much, it could even mean there isn't much need for a heatsink b/c of the low power draw of Skylake CPUs.

Good to know.
Quote:
The only real way to see how it works is to try haha, I think you will be able to get a decent overclock out of the board, the board probably does have limits in place so you can't break the VRM, that being said if you keep constant airflow over the area you will be better off most of the time.

I did overclock, I got up to 4.6GHz at <1.4V. 4.7GHz would require more than 1.45V so I'm not gonna go there. But 4.6 seems safer now that we know what the VRM consists of! And it (hopefully) helps that I replaced the thermal tape with Alphacool 11W/mk.



I also delidded the CPU (Coollab Liquid Pro, lid back on, MX-4 on top). I didn't have to delid because my temps were more than fine even before delidding. But it was still fun and worth it:

Delid photos (Click to show)




4.5GHz @ 1.344V, Prime95 27.7 SmallFFT 10 min
Before -- 71-69-66-69 °C
After ---- 59-58-57-58 °C

I can run a slightly quieter CPU fan profile while keeping much lower temps.
Quote:
The MOSFETs are pretty solid and their arrangement is good (2L1H).

thumb.gif Thanks for all the help!
Edited by lehtv - 10/5/15 at 1:49am
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post #28 of 30
Nice job! Lucky you didn't crack the thin PCB in half lol Any reason you used the vice over the razor? Or you were scared you would scratch the PCB?
    
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post #29 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Nice job! Lucky you didn't crack the thin PCB in half lol Any reason you used the vice over the razor? Or you were scared you would scratch the PCB?

Thanks biggrin.gif

I didn't even consider the razor method because I had already successfully (and with little effort) delidded a 3770K with this vice method about a month ago. So I was pretty confident, having done it once before.

Most people seem to prefer razor over vice because they don't want to whack the thin PCB with a hammer, but there's very little that can go wrong when all you're doing is securing it between the jaws and applying pressure on the PCB and the IHS from opposing directions.
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post #30 of 30
I think it's just that Skylake's PCB is much thinner than previous CPUs
    
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