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Is it possible to run a new GPU with my poor old Athlon II X4 620? - Page 7

post #61 of 75
Hello psof,
I am an owner of an athlon II X4 640 for the last 5 years, i know this cpu inside out and i've squeezed every bit of performance i can reach easily 3.8GHz, your 620 is essentially the same CPU so i suggest you to try these settings:

Advanced Clock Calibration: +12% (this is used to help with stability in high overclocks and i think overvolting too)
CPU Clock Ratio <<= x13 which is probably your default
CPU Host Clock Control [Manual] <<= set to 260Mhz
CPU NorthBridge Freq. <<= Keep it at 2300-2400 not higher, it gets unstable and requires a lot of voltage
PCIE Clock (MHz) 100 MHz --- IMPORTANT
HT Link Width [Auto]
HT Link Frequency Keep it below or equal to 2000, after that usually performance degrades and stability is bad
Set Memory Clock [Auto]
DRAM Configuration <<= Make sure DCTs Mode is Unganged
********
System Voltage Control
[Manual]
x DDR3 Voltage Control Normal
x NorthBridge Volt Control Normal
x SouthBridge Volt Control Normal
x CPU NB VID Control <<= Set to 1.2
x CPU Voltage Control <<= Set to 1.5

Try increasing the fsb in 2MHz steps,test for stability, if stable-repeat, until you reach ~270MHz(=3.5Ghz)

Try to reach your max CPU overclock while keeping CPU-NB at 1800-2000 and then increase the CPU-NB multiplier until you reach 2300-2500 which is the sweet spot for 3.5GHz, if it is unstable increase the CPUNB volt a notch, but dont get above 1.3

CPU-NB will be 2400 which is good for phenoms but godlike on athlons, i think due to their lack of L3 cache, which results in ~10% performance boost in applications/games compared to 2000 CPUNB.

Overclocking your RAM will lower the CPU OC potential which is more important in overall performance, so i suggest to keep it at 1333MHz

Μην βιάζεσαι να υπερχρονίσεις, θα χρειαστείς αρκετές ώρες υπομονής μέχρι να βρεις ένα καλο overclock, καλή τύχη!!



p.s. Only the first athlon ii x4 640 chips were Deneb-based and had unlockable L3 like this one
Edited by Marios145 - 9/25/15 at 4:46pm
post #62 of 75
Thread Starter 
WoW thanks for the superb guide my fellow countryman!
I will try your way today and I will be more patient this time!
I was just surpriced because the first time I tried to overclock before I upgrade my Ram,CPU fan and the GPU I managed to go to 250FSB and 3.25GHz without any fails or 2 MHz steps at a time...

A small question though.

In a lot of Athlon overclocking guides there is the advice to disable C1E, Spread Spectrum CPU/LDT 0.5% and Smart CPU Fan Control.
Everytime before an overclock I disable C1E but I can't find any Spectrum CPU/LDT 0.5% and I have 2 different settings with the tag of Smart CPU fan control and thus I disable both of them.

The one is in the same page with C1E option(I think exactly under C1E) with a name like AMD K8 Smart fan control and the other is in the PC Health page with the name Smart CPU Fan control.

Should I keep one of those enabled and what about the Spectrum CPU/LDT 0.5%?
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by psof View Post


Should I keep one of those enabled and what about the Spectrum CPU/LDT 0.5%?

C1E is for power savings. If you have Cool N Quiet disabled, keeping it enabled does nothing. So as far as i remember, overclockers in AM3, were simply disabling all power saving features.

Your motherboard may say "CPU spread spectrum" enabled or disabled. Honestly, i doubt it plays much of a role, but overclockers again, were preferring to disable that. The CPU spread spectrum doesn't do anything important really, it's just there for national regulations. When enabled, it means that the motherboard must ensure that it won't cause electromagnetic interference to other nearby electrical devices and that instead, it will accept electromagnetic interference from nearby devices. Overclockers tend to set this to disabled (personally i think it's snake oil).
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post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

C1E is for power savings. If you have Cool N Quiet disabled, keeping it enabled does nothing. So as far as i remember, overclockers in AM3, were simply disabling all power saving features.

Your motherboard may say "CPU spread spectrum" enabled or disabled. Honestly, i doubt it plays much of a role, but overclockers again, were preferring to disable that. The CPU spread spectrum doesn't do anything important really, it's just there for national regulations. When enabled, it means that the motherboard must ensure that it won't cause electromagnetic interference to other nearby electrical devices and that instead, it will accept electromagnetic interference from nearby devices. Overclockers tend to set this to disabled (personally i think it's snake oil).
If you're going for suicide runs you will need to disable power saving features, because they bring a lot of variables to the table, but for this kind of overclocking it won't do much.

p.s Plus it's better to find a stable OC WITH Cool n Quiet enabled, as it will provide better temps at idle and light tasks
Edited by Marios145 - 9/26/15 at 2:18am
post #65 of 75
Thread Starter 
So except C1E / AMD K8 Cool&Quite control and CPU Smart Fan control do I have some other power saving feature that I don't know of?

My bios screen looks like this:










Also could the option of making a buckup of Bios in HDD fix my broken dual bios of my mobo and letting me recover from failed overclocks without having to manualy reset the cmos once again?
in the picture I see this option enabled but in my bios it's disabled.
Edited by psof - 9/26/15 at 6:07am
post #66 of 75
Dual bios prevents bricking yor motherboard due to failed flashing. Doesn't help in this case.
post #67 of 75
Thread Starter 
Ok guys I tried Marios' way and I took it as slowly as possible.
I couldn't pass the 2.9Ghz and that was without the stability test.. That's about 232 FSB I think..
Again without overclocking either the Ram (over 1333mhz) or the NB-HT frequency (over 2000Mhz).
I even tried with the Ram underclocked or a bit overvolted.
Nothing. I couldn't even boot guys..
I did clear the cmos with the screwdriver this time and saved some pain though.

In my frustration I put my old ram back and I tried at once my previous successful overclock at 3.25 Ghz (250 FSB) without changing the voltage and with the ram @ 1333mhz.
Success from the first try.
I went back to the bios and I tried for the first time an overclock at 3.4 GHz( 260-262 FSB) and NB frequency @ 2300 Mhz with the vcore voltage @ 1.5v and NB voltage @ 1.2v.
Success from the first try.
I logged in my Windows just to check my temp and the Core Temp couldn't show it. It had a " 0? ". I checked with 4-5 more programs and had no luck too.
Anyway I let it be and opened a game to check the difference in the FPS but it crashed after a few seconds so I guess it wasn't a stable overclock.

It's still confusing though how I could easily and successfuly overclock(stable or not) with my old kit of Ram and how I couldn't even boot in all of my serious attempts with the new kit of Ram.
It's propably my PSU or my Ram's hardware or settings fault.

I'm really close to give up and just save some money for a new i3-4170 and a H97 motherboard and when the dual core become unplayable in a few years to upgrade to a used i5.
I know that a 1090t/1100t is the most vfm solution for me but If i can't even overclock my Athlon II X4 how I could risk it with a 125w chip like the X6 Phenoms?

Even with the stock clocks of Athlon though every game I tested was playable(over 40 fps average) at very high/max settings @ 1080p resolution and with 100% usage of the GPU.

Tomb Raider ultra/1080p 62 FPS average
Far Cry 3 almost max 50-55 FPS
Witcher 3 at very high 55-60 FPS with the nvidia hair thing off
Ryse son of Rome very high 55-60 FPS

Only Son of Rome seemed to be close to Cpu bottleneck but it wasn't the case.

In a few days I will try Middle Earth Shadow or Mordor just to feel how it is to be severely cpu bottlenecked since I think it's very cpu depended.
Do you know any more heavy in cpu demands games?
Edited by psof - 9/26/15 at 10:31am
post #68 of 75
Probably your motherboard/cpu isn't setting all the correct timings for your new RAM
You will have to find your exact RAM timings and set them manually
You can do that with amd overdrive, it will be in Memory/RAM tab, you are looking for SPD info or something similar
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by psof View Post

I went back to the bios and I tried for the first time an overclock at 3.4 GHz( 260-262 FSB) and NB frequency @ 2300 Mhz with the vcore voltage @ 1.5v and NB voltage @ 1.2v.

You could probably lower your vcore and should raise your CPU-NB voltage. There is a Northbridge in the CPU, which is referred to as CPU-NB. This is the part in charge of memory control and L3. There is also the Northbridge on your motherboard, under the heatsink. NB frequency is the speed of CPU-NB. I don't know when one should add voltage to the motherboard northbridge, I've read (only once, mind) that upping MB-NB voltage helps achieve higher FSB speeds, but I am not sure and have not researched this so please do not take my word for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psof View Post

I logged in my Windows just to check my temp and the Core Temp couldn't show it. It had a " 0? ". I checked with 4-5 more programs and had no luck too.

Do you still have EC firmware as Hybrid? That could cause it. Unlocked CPU's would not show core temperature. Your's isn't, but the issue could be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psof View Post

I'm really close to give up and just save some money for a new i3-4170 and a H97 motherboard and when the dual core become unplayable in a few years to upgrade to a used i5.
I know that a 1090t/1100t is the most vfm solution for me but If i can't even overclock my Athlon II X4 how I could risk it with a 125w chip like the X6 Phenoms?

Even with the stock clocks of Athlon though every game I tested was playable(over 40 fps average) at very high/max settings @ 1080p resolution and with 100% usage of the GPU.

Tomb Raider ultra/1080p 62 FPS average
Far Cry 3 almost max 50-55 FPS
Witcher 3 at very high 55-60 FPS with the nvidia hair thing off
Ryse son of Rome very high 55-60 FPS

Only Son of Rome seemed to be close to Cpu bottleneck but it wasn't the case.

Why bother upgrading? I am surprised by your performance. It's probably Windows 10 working it's magic. I don't really agree with the end user being the product and the included spyware, but the base OS is nice. I am trying out W10 myself, GTA V no longer drops into 20's, which is a considerable performance gain.

I am waiting for Zen, perhaps you should do the same?

About your RAM issues: CPU-NB voltage not only helps with higher CPU-NB frequencies, but also stabilizing memory. It includes the memory controller after all.

The slow-and-steady method doesn't work for everyone. I find the leap-of-faith method works for me. Since you could boot into Windows at 3.4GHz, try stabilizing that? Vcore stock-1.45, CPU-NB voltage at 1.225-1.275, RAM at 1200-1400 MHz, loose first, tighten later, when you have decided on your final CPU freq.
Edited by 1216 - 9/26/15 at 3:49pm
post #70 of 75
Yeah - increasing the amount of RAM can lose you some max OC headroom. When I went from 16 GB (4x 4 GB) to 32 GB (4x 8 GB) on 1055T I lost few hundred MHz from my max stable OC as well. Granted, 1055T and the motherboard did not officially support more than 16 GB of RAM anyway so I had to do timings for the RAM manually for the 32 GB.

You could try to increase memory controller voltage a bit and increase RAM voltage to 1.575 V (that is max suggested voltage for long term reliable usage, although in reality RAM can handle much more usually for quite a while). Also the suggestion of looking up SPD values and setting the timings by hand might help. CPU-z for example shows the SPD tables for installed sticks as well.
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