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Triple peltier chiller - Page 2

post #11 of 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

running TEC's at full power is totally the wrong way of going about it shrimpbrime. They are very inefficient at full power. The whole point of a TEC chiller is to run multiple TEC's at low volts, this maximises qmax and COP while reducing the heat output by the TEC's themselves and also breaking up the heatload that you need to cool so each TEC handles less of the total heatload. lzf has the right idea about undervolting these tecs, possibly all the way down to 6v and no higher than 12v, this set up should be more than capable of doing what he wants.

also, 408w is the qmax of these 3 tecs when at full power, the power consumption at full power and therefore the heatload is actually 684w, which is quite considerable for 4x120 rads to cool on top of the 200 odd watts that the cpu is putting out. so he will need to undervolt just to get his hotside water temp down. at 12v/TEC the heatload from the 3 tecs is 432w, which is much better already, at 6v/TEC the heatload from TEC's is just 108w but I don't think he'll have enough qmax to handle his cpu at that point though. I think about 9v is the sweet spot for 12715's.

lzf, i wouldn't try to control your cold loop temp via the hotside fans, i would just put a very small radiator on the cold side and only turn a fan on when it approaches a few degrees above dew point, or for simplicity sake, make it like 5 degrees celcius below ambient so you don't need a humidity sensor. Find out your average dew point delta below ambient and make sure you set your cold loop fan to turn on a couple of degrees above that or you might accidentally go sub dew point. this would mean you don't waste too much power and allows your hot side to maintain a decent temp to react to your load temps and the cold side fan should still kick in in time to rpevent sub dew point temps, if the rad is small it will also mean less losses while the fan is off too, but has to be big enough to keep water above dew point. I think you know all this anyway tongue.gif good luck biggrin.gif I think you have all the right parts it's just a matter of tuning your voltages so it does exactly what you want at idle and at load

I just love how you quote me but leave out the VERY FIRST SENTENCE I WRITE.

Quote:
An easy way to control these TECs is with a rheostat.


I know my way round a few TECs believe me. If you actually read my post.... I think you'd know that.

The fact you only mention running x volts and say nothing of AMPs tells me you know nothing about electricity.

Also, while running any TEC you should seal them.

Need certain TEC clamping force for reliable heat transfer (yes cold is considered a heat)
Quote:
running TEC's at full power is totally the wrong way of going about it shrimpbrime.

Hasn't mentioned how to control TECs.

Your post is actually useless.
post #12 of 748
full power, ie 15.2v/15amps = 228w. just the lazy way of saying it, i usually just say pmax to indicate full volts and amps. everyone can look up this chart http://www.customthermoelectric.com/tecs/pdf/12711-5M31-15CQ_spec_sht.pdf for a basic idea of what amps it will pull at the volts they want to use and can work out their qmax and pmax from that. and controlling with a rheostat is a bit risky, better to control it with PWM or variable dc psu like the meanwell RSP750 or SPV300-24, you can also mod a normal ATX PSU to about 9-10v which I believe lzf has done, or you can run the tecs in series to halve the volts/tec and keep the amps that your PSU has to handle down, good if he wants to run them at 6v, but would need 4 tecs, 2 in series x 2 parallel. you get the best from tecs by undervolting them at a set voltage about half their rated full umax and then control them with PWM, you can do a simple PWM mosfet controller with a manual pot on it to set your duty cycle manually as you need, or you can do full blown controller with an arduino etc. lzf doens't need any of that functionality as its too costly and complex for what he wants, he just wants colder than normal ambient water cooling but not sub dew point, its very expensive to implement a full custom dew point controller. he stated he will control it by undervolting and then just taking the easy option of warming the cold side loop up with ambient air blowing through a radiator in the cold loop when the cold side approaches dew point when cpu is idle, and you want it to be below dew point in idle otherwise it is useless at load. lzf knows all this.

most of these 12715's come with silicone sealant, gotta pay more for ones from custom thermo if you want good ones though. clamping force is all written about in previous tec threads. best to just use 2 mounting points per tec, he can't do that with his 120x40 waterblock but others have succeeded with similar designs, just have to calculate the torque required per bolt and try not to skew the block at all, lap the tecs too to make sure they all are the same thickness and contact the block perfectly.

one of these with a fan on the mosfet heatsinks is a poor mans controller http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-60A-10-50V-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-3000W-MAX-12V-24V-48V-/311347845925?hash=item487dc71b25 good enough if you want to toddle along at ambient in idle and then crank it to 100% duty cycle when you want to game or bench test
Edited by LiamG6 - 9/20/15 at 2:10am
post #13 of 748
Thread Starter 
No fighting guys wink.gif but yea a tec at full power is a bad tec in a water chiller with direct die 1 big one is ok the idea with my chiller is I'm planing to run 3 12715tecs at about 8-10 volt depending on load temps I might even turn them down abit more and the power supply I have will run them fine as where the voltage drops the amps go down as well so there 15v 15 amp at 10v 10amp they will be little over 100w each but then I start to gain a good cop then next month I will buy a mother 240rad nother 3 12715 tecs and 2 more blocks and run the voltage to all 6 lower and gain more cop at 6 tecs with 6-5 volt I'll be close to cooling more then power useage and should be able to keep a lot more load cooler if needed with 2 hot loops and 1 cold loop

8v 26amps using 214watts
max load is 330 watts of cooling at 45*c hot side which should be close
200watt load onto tecs 414 watts to cool on a 240x60x12 and a couple of single 120's so yea ill be pushing my rad space a bit running at higher volts but will be ok for now and i will end up with a 0.9 cop and a delta od 21*c which is leaving me right where i want to be with 20*c water tongue.gif

when i build it with 6 tecs at 7volt each ill cool 443 use 243 watts 37amp 7v and a delta of 30*c with 13*c water temps so i can back off the volts abit to 5v and have 1.27 cop and 20*c water of and only using 158watts of power to cool 200watts wink.gifwink.gif
Edited by lzf995 - 9/17/15 at 6:02am
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post #14 of 748
Thread Starter 
Also my goal is to soon build a chiller that I can then add my Gtx 295 to as well to over clock that as well with 12tecs 4 240 rads 4 750lph pumps and 1 cold loop and hold my whole pc at good temps then when I upgrade my pc next time with an 8 core and a newer lower tdp gpu I'll be able to keep it and just change water blocks over

500watt load 12 tecs 5v 64amps 333watts used 833 to cool on 4 240 rads in 4 loops cop of 1.50 delta of only 18 and water at 22*c i could cool 935 watts max at 5 volt
Edited by lzf995 - 9/17/15 at 6:08am
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post #15 of 748
thats the beauty of tecs, more tecs at lower volts = better COP, but don't go too low on the volts or you lose delta and gain qmax. i try to keep mine targeted towards the 30-40 degree delta range on the tec data sheets so that it ends up in the 20-30 degree c delta range once all the losses are taken into account. if you want to maintain a good delta you usually need to stay above 50% umax, sometimes as high as 75% umax. if you just want heaps of qmax to handle a large heatload at moderate temps then undervolt to your hearts content haha. there are some really crazy efficiencies to be found at the lower voltages, only downside is $$$$$$$$ haha.
post #16 of 748
Thread Starter 
yea true i just want it to drop my temps abit so it'll be fine with 3 for now as im benching the fx at 5.2ghz at 1.62volt it hit 54*c and it abit warmer then id like to be honest
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post #17 of 748
Play nice guys, there is more then one way to skin a cat when working with TECs smile.gif.

Rheostats are actually pretty poor for TEC control though, tons of dangerous waste heat there which will require some hefty wiring. They much prefer PWM, but that is a lot more expensive and complicated.

Again though, with enough fiddling and patience you can make a lot of things work smile.gif.
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post #18 of 748
Thread Starter 
2 old 12710 154watt peltiers at 6volt each
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post #19 of 748
Thread Starter 
little update I have tried these 2 154watt at 12 volt and my cpu is now idling at *3 below room temp on 1 240 rad and I kinda got a itchy finger and may have got a 360 rad to go with my 240 biggrin.gif and maybe buying a core i7 920 or xeon x5570 as want the 8 cores and be faster than this fx 4100 at 5ghz it still bottlenecks my gtx 295 frown.gif also by the time I typed this I dropped 4*c and started to condensation the tubes up I put little layer of Vaseline in cpu socket and around socket and some kitchen roll biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 748
Keep going thumb.gif Ditch the wire ties for proper bolts and apply the right amount of torque.
    
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