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[Guru3D] Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Gets DX12 and a Benchmark says AMD (Updated) - Page 85

post #841 of 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Right? This one boggles the mind. Why would people dislike an API represented almost singly by games that run very poorly? Makes no sense to me.

They know nothing about DX12 itself, they go off only what they see. They see it runs worse in games on their cards and blame the API.
 
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post #842 of 892
It's the current state of dx12 versions of games that is dilapidated (had to consult a dictionary to find a suitable expression).
Frankly, telling around that amd has an advantage over nvidia is true, but what does it matter anyway when nvidia in dx11 mode can match or ouperform amd dx12.
I'm disappointed with nvidia cards in dx12, especially the new Pascal ones with negative pefromance when compared to dx11. Still I don't know who to blame for this performance loss, the developer or the card manufacturer themsleves.
Edited by Klocek001 - 9/27/16 at 7:06am
post #843 of 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

It's the current state of dx12 versions of games that is dilapidated (had to consult a dictionary to find a suitable expression).
Frankly, telling around that amd has an advantage over nvidia is true, but what does it matter anyway when nvidia in dx11 mode can match or ouperform amd dx12.
I'm disappointed with nvidia cards in dx12, especially the new Pascal ones with negative pefromance when compared to dx11. Still I don't know who to blame for this performance loss, the developer or the card manufacturer themsleves.

I have two ideas.

It could be the DX11 drivers (and the OpenGL drivers) from nvidia being super good. With DX12 (and Vulkan), the ratio between how much work towards the end result on screen is done by the game's developer and how much is done by the driver's developer is different. The driver influence on the performance is lower and the game's influence is higher.

Another thought would be what kind of graphics card the game developers have in their own machines where they test their code, with DX11 being the main target they have put most work into. While developing things, they are perhaps working on nvidia cards. They naturally fix all annoying performance problems they can find and know how to fix, and they avoid doing anything that can't run well. This is all before they go through the final optimization work they do before release where they'll also look at other graphics card. This could then make the DX11 nvidia driver look very good, and compete well with DX12.
post #844 of 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoNB View Post

Its much closer to DX12 than Vulkan would be.

DX12 offers MGPU support, Vulkan does.

DX12 also has a bunch more APIs and parts than just graphics, vulkan is only graphics.

There is a lot missing from vulkan that is in DX12.

Can you please show a source of these financial gains paid to them from Microsoft?

And sorry I can't take ID's claims without massive bias. They've always used OpenGL over DirectX even though directx is clearly superior. How much closer would Vulkan and DX11 be if they'd used it instead of OpenGL?

DICE helped write Mantle which then turned into Vulkan. If there was gains to be had over DX12 don't you think they would have used it?


True, but the Xbox One market share is much lower compared to the PS4 and smaller than the PC installed base. Microsoft pure and simply stopped publishing sales figures for the system last year on October 26, with speculation and an EA executive talking too much saying that the Xbox One has sold around 18 - 19 million while Sony sold 36 million as of January this year. Considering that both the PC and the PS4 can run OpenGL and variants, and Vulkan, my reasoning makes perfect economic sense.

So, you have to wonder why exactly would they pair with AMD in the beginning and then switch to an ecosystem that doesn't bring them advantages in terms of installed player base? There has to be monetary incentives on the part of Microsoft, just as there were when they released Titanfall exclusively on the Xbox One:


Respawn: Exclusivity Decision Was out of Our Hands, We’d Have Loved to Be on PlayStation from the Beginning
Quote:
It was hardly surprising, then, that Titanfall had a lot of hype leading up to its launch. One of the main talking points for a long time was the Xbox console exclusivity, which cut off PlayStation gamers from being able to play it.

In retrospect, Respawn’s Art Director Joel Emslie and Chief Operating Officer Dusty Welch revealed in an interview with PlayStation LifeStyle that the decision was strictly between Electronic Arts and Microsoft, while they would have liked to be on PlayStation from the beginning.

(...)
Quote:
That decision is one that was out of our hands — the EA decision with Microsoft. We would always like these to be multiplatform. The more consumers that can play ’em, the better. It’s not about money, it’s about the audience base, which is important. We would have loved to have been with PlayStation from the beginning. But I think Joel made a good point earlier, which is that Titanfall 2 is a really refined, robust, well-balanced game, so we’re excited that the PlayStation audience, seeing it for the first time, is getting an incredible, highly-rated game.


As to MGPU support, I believe that you are missing a word in your post, the sentence is supposed to end with "Vulkan does not", right ? I'll assume so. You're right, although from what I've read not only has the Khronos group announced that it's the next update to the API coming, it's also feasible for developers to implement in on their own right now. Of course, having some of the heavy lifting done beforehand is preferable, but it's interesting to note that on this very same topic, not only hasn't Deus Ex: Mankind Divided not left DX 12 Beta status on the 19th of September like they said it would, it also does not yet support DX 12 MGPU configurations as of the last Patch 7 released on the 23rd, so in practice the difference is theoretical at this point, it seems like a complicated job in either case:





As to DX 12 having more than graphics, true, but it's also true that you have OpenCL and it's also true that things like Microsoft's DirectSound are now deprecated and not used much now as other posters have already said. There are good choices used.
Edited by tpi2007 - 9/27/16 at 10:43am
 
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post #845 of 892
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

True, but the Xbox One market share is much lower compared to the PS4 and smaller than the PC installed base. Microsoft pure and simply stopped publishing sales figures for the system last year on October 26, with speculation and an EA executive talking too much saying that the Xbox One has sold around 18 - 19 million while Sony sold 36 million as of January this year. Considering that both the PC and the PS4 can run OpenGL and variants, and Vulkan, my reasoning makes perfect economic sense.

PS4 doesn't support Vulkan
Quote:
As to MGPU support, I believe that you are missing a word in your post, the sentence is supposed to end with "Vulkan does not", right ? I'll assume so. You're right, although from what I've read not only has the Khronos group announced that it's the next update to the API coming, it's also feasible for developers to implement in on their own right now. Of course, having some of the heavy lifting done beforehand is preferable, but it's interesting to note that on this very same topic, not only hasn't Deus Ex: Mankind Divided not left DX 12 Beta status on the 19th of September like they said it would, it also does not yet support DX 12 MGPU configurations as of the last Patch 7 released on the 23rd, so in practice the difference is theoretical at this point, it seems like a complicated job in either case:

As to DX 12 having more than graphics, true, but it's also true that you have OpenCL and it's also true that things like Microsoft's DirectSound are now deprecated and not used much now as other posters have already said. There are good choices used.

Yes Deus Ex Mankind Divided doesn't support MGPU, but other DX12 titles do including Rise of the Tomb Raider, so expect to see it in Deus Ex when they release the official DX12 patch or shortly after. Afterall they did the ROTTR PC port
post #846 of 892
Apart from UWP ports what game has shipped with DX12? I think its 0 which means DX12 is not here.
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post #847 of 892
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Originally Posted by DracoNB View Post

PS4 doesn't support Vulkan

Yes Deus Ex Mankind Divided doesn't support MGPU, but other DX12 titles do including Rise of the Tomb Raider, so expect to see it in Deus Ex when they release the official DX12 patch or shortly after. Afterall they did the ROTTR PC port

Yes, I know, but there is nothing stopping them from doing so, since they already use a custom OpenGL implementation, that's what I was hinting at. The Xbox One on the other hand doesn't support Vulkan and most surely won't. That is the difference.

Deus Ex was supposed to have been released with DX 12 support from the beginning. Then DX 12 was delayed. And when it got out it wasn't it its final form, that was supposed to come on Sept 19. It's now 11 days past that and the game's DX 12 support is still in Beta and there is still no mGPU support. At some point it becomes mostly irrelevant to the market whether it gets it or not. Most fans have already played the game. At that point it will be just homework that they are doing for the next instalment / DLC. Meanwhile mGPU support for Vulkan is also underway, and so all in all, I'd say that from a relevancy point of view, Vulkan isn't very late to the game in that regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Apart from UWP ports what game has shipped with DX12? I think its 0 which means DX12 is not here.

AotS is the Crysis of DX 12, but that's it. And it's not even a very good game.

Even the first UWP titles were not exactly much more than games wrapped around it. Gears of War was based on the 2006 UE3 DX9 game and Quantum Break was made with DX 11 first as the Steam release yesterday proves.
Edited by tpi2007 - 9/30/16 at 8:12am
 
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post #848 of 892
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


AotS is the Crysis of DX 12, but that's it. And it's not even a very good game.

Even the first UWP titles were not exactly much more than games wrapped around it. Gears of War was based on the 2006 UE3 DX9 game and Quantum Break was made with DX 11 first as the Steam release yesterday proves.
you cant compare Crysis to AotS, Crysis was unoptimized FPS sandbox, introduced a good upgradee system to the weapons, it had an awesome multiplayer unlike Crysis 2 it really exploit the graphics features, AotS is a really optimized RTS, showcasing latest features from the new API but doesnt show latest graphics features.keep most of the the supreme commander concept, both are good games. if people doesnt like the genre or the style that is a lot subjective
Edited by PontiacGTX - 9/30/16 at 11:17am
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post #849 of 892
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Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

you cant compare Crysis to AotS, Crysis was unoptimized FPS sandbox, introduced a good upgradee system to the weapons, it had an awesome multiplayer unlike Crysis 2 it really exploit the graphics features, AotS is a really optimized RTS, showcasing latest features from the new API but doesnt show latest graphics features.keep most of the the supreme commander concept, both are good games. if people doesnt like the genre or the style that is a lot subjective

I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying that both positioned themselves as frontrunners to promote a new DirectX version.

Of course they are different games, but I didn't compare them to one another, I just said that AotS wasn't that good of a game in itself.

According to the averaged review scores by both critics and users (and that also applies to GOG - 3.5 stars and Steam - 68% positive reviews) AotS is generally seen as not that great of a game.

Meanwhile, and not comparing them to each other, Crysis is generally seen as a good game, despite the fame of being a benchmark.




http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/ashes-of-the-singularity





http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/crysis
Edited by tpi2007 - 9/30/16 at 11:46am
 
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post #850 of 892
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying that both positioned themselves as frontrunners to promote a new DirectX version.

Of course they are different games, but I didn't compare them to one another, I just said that AotS wasn't that good of a game in itself.

According to the averaged review scores by both critics and users (and that also applies to GOG - 3.5 stars and Steam - 68% positive reviews) AotS is generally seen as not that great of a game.

Meanwhile, and not comparing them to each other, Crysis is generally seen as a good game, despite the fame of being a benchmark.




http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/ashes-of-the-singularity





http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/crysis

Games like these are needed too, I hope others realize this. I'm glad Crysis also happened to be one of the better shooters around. AotS isn't known for anything other than its DX12, while Crysis was simultaneously known for its fun sandbox physics-based gameplay even if this was shamefully forgotten over time.
 
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