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post #181 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post

Hey, I'm with you on that. It certainly does happen on both sides. The point of the thread really is to say what you've just stated in your post.
The point I tried to make is that Nvidia have less overhead than AMD. I just wanted people to realise this. That's my only intention. Instead I have people insisting I'm either imagining it, or my system has a problem. And that's all I got from people five years back. The evidence is now out there in various forms. What I said 5 years ago (and that included screenshots) has now come to light. Those who still don't believe either play at 4K with reduced settings (that's not a dig at you, because you do understand overhead exists), or have a lack of understanding of architecture and programming. I don't claim to be some programming expert. I'm not. I've programmed only for 6 years and studied architecture and mathematical algorithms for 3 years. I still have a few things to learn for sure. But it is clear. AMD have more overhead and they hope to resolve that through low level API's.

4K reduced settings all the way . . .

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post #182 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

4K reduced settings all the way . . .


rdr09 how do you explain my system getting ~ 90 fps @ 1440p and 75 fps @ 4K? There is no way the performance hit in BF4 is only 15 fps by increasing the pixels 2X+.

Just because you get more then 60 fps or even 100 fps does not mean there is no CPU overhead problem.

I have been having problem with all BF games and they all suck with AMD cards. The cards are so capable i can even do 5K and still get 40-50 fps because the CPU problem is eliminated but 1080p and 1440p where i should be getting 150 fps i don't.

The problem is real in a lot of games. GW2, SC2, WoW etc etc. All these games just don't perform as well on AMD cards because of CPU overhead.

BradleyW says 5 year but i would have to say 10 years from my experience. Not because i have tested these 10 years ago but because of how many reviews i have read.

There was always the saying that AMD cards perform better on higher resolution then Nvidia and people though the card was just stronger but in reality Nvidia has always had better CPU overhead.

Not sure why you are defending AMD or what ever you are trying to do. It's not like we have Nvidia hardware are bashing your GPUs. We want CPU overhead to be fixed by AMD if its possible and you are not going to be effected either way.
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post #183 of 454
I never had a bf4 problem with crossfire. I almost get 100% scaling

But i tend to do a lot of os tweaking and in general i dont run too many backgrounds apps.

Gw2,sc2,wow doesnt perform well on anything out there.

Personal experience after playing with those games everyday.

Wow 25 man raiding. Easily below 40 fps based on the particles. No matter what gpu.

Sc2 after 20 min match. Easily below 30 fps no matter the gpu.

Gw2 with the events easily max 15 fps.

The point is yeah nvidia will have 5 fps more on these games. But it doesnt matter except if you care about numbers. They are unplayable with either gpus at least on my experience.

Yeah amd has an overhead and maybe fury doesnt perform for this reason but it only matters to the people that care about max performance. And when you get at this point you need to think about so many other things that bottleneck your gpu except dx11 overhead.

Its a miracle that we can get 100+ fps with an api that depends so heavily on single thread performance for rendering.
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post #184 of 454
i never claimed at any time that there is zero cpu overhead. what i do know is that i can play my games with my 290s at stock. not much edumacated as some and that's prolly why i have ear to some who are more like sugar, tsm, and blameless.
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post #185 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post

You know I've tried all this. The only ones who can fix overhead is AMD. It's their driver.
you havent told me anything about chaging AFR modes or checking pagefile or checking how big is the impact in performance with CPU bound setting reduced
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I never had a bf4 problem with crossfire. I almost get 100% scaling


Its a miracle that we can get 100+ fps with an api that depends so heavily on single thread performance for rendering.

with little optimization , and now improved a bit more with Win10 indeed is quite good but people keep playing at 1080 with high end dual gpus..
Edited by PontiacGTX - 9/25/15 at 9:37am
  
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post #186 of 454
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I never had a bf4 problem with crossfire. I almost get 100% scaling
But i tend to do a lot of os tweaking and in general i dont run too many backgrounds apps.
Gw2,sc2,wow doesnt perform well on anything out there.
Personal experience after playing with those games everyday.
Wow 25 man raiding. Easily below 40 fps based on the particles. No matter what gpu.
Sc2 after 20 min match. Easily below 30 fps no matter the gpu.
Gw2 with the events easily max 15 fps.
The point is yeah nvidia will have 5 fps more on these games. But it doesnt matter except if you care about numbers. They are unplayable with either gpus at least on my experience.
Yeah amd has an overhead and maybe fury doesnt perform for this reason but it only matters to the people that care about max performance. And when you get at this point you need to think about so many other things that bottleneck your gpu except dx11 overhead.
Its a miracle that we can get 100+ fps with an api that depends so heavily on single thread performance for rendering.

I can imagine those games do run poor because DX11 likes to hog a single core.

For me, it's all about the minimum fps. I've had the odd game drop below 60fps. I take a look at the usage and see that I've ran into a CPU limitation scenario (1 core pegged at 99). That's why I'd like more DX11 improvements on a driver level personally. As for RTS games, a low level API is vital for both sides I'd say.
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post #187 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post

I can imagine those games do run poor because DX11 likes to hog a single core.

For me, it's all about the minimum fps. I've had the odd game drop below 60fps. I take a look at the usage and see that I've ran into a CPU limitation scenario (1 core pegged at 99). That's why I'd like more DX11 improvements on a driver level personally. As for RTS games, a low level API is vital for both sides I'd say.
what happens if you change the cfg file for the core usage or change the affinity
  
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post #188 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

i never claimed at any time that there is zero cpu overhead. what i do know is that i can play my games with my 290s at stock. not much edumacated as some and that's prolly why i have ear to some who are more like sugar, tsm, and blameless.

If it was not playable with 290s then nobody would be buying AMD cards. That is not the point. Even if you are well beyond 60 fps CPU overhead is still there. You can argue then you dont need more then fps but look at Fury. If you have CPU overhead in a lot of games with 2 x 290s then buying 2 x Furys or Fury X will get you 0 fps gain and continue to get worse. In the past you would just keep upgrading CPUs but CPU progression has slowed down dramatically.
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post #189 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

If it was not playable with 290s then nobody would be buying AMD cards. That is not the point. Even if you are well beyond 60 fps CPU overhead is still there. You can argue then you dont need more then fps but look at Fury. If you have CPU overhead in a lot of games with 2 x 290s then buying 2 x Furys or Fury X will get you 0 fps gain and continue to get worse. In the past you would just keep upgrading CPUs but CPU progression has slowed down dramatically.

you have negative scaling in MM?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_IYWtApsM0

i don't have negative scaling in any of my games.
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post #190 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

you have negative scaling in MM?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_IYWtApsM0

i don't have negative scaling in any of my games.

Yes in MM in some parts of the games is negative scaling and some parts is 100% scaling.
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