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post #61 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

With today gaming advances, i would advise to not buy anything dual cored. Go for i5 at least, or FX-6xxx/8xxx / Phenom II x4/x6.

I went from a Pentium to i5 and in terms of gaming it was my 2nd best upgrade
(My best was r7 260x to Gtx 970 lol)
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post #62 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by adi6293 View Post

What exactly were you not happy with when you used those FX based systems?

Very inconsistent performance. Lower settings then I expected. Overall less smooth gameplay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The only combo I recalled you having your 8320 set up with was the 970 ud3 with a 212 cm cooler, which is a near perfect recipe for disappointment.

I did have the 8320 (212 evo) with that 970a-ud3 at first. I faced major throttling issues. I then moved to that 990 (H100i) and after a bios update did not suffer throttling issues. I bought that FX 6300 later (built a system for my ol'lady). It paired up nicely with the 970a.

When I originally planned my FX build I was going to get a FX-6300/970a-ud3. The day I ordered it the FX-8320 was on sale for $145 vs the norm for that time of $160. I ended up getting the 8320 without considering the fact that I should of also gotten a different mobo. Noob builder mistake there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

With today gaming advances, i would advise to not buy anything dual cored. Go for i5 at least, or FX-6xxx/8xxx / Phenom II x4/x6.

I read that some games (Far Cry 4 off hand) won't even load without altering config files on a dual core. I haven't looked into it myself. Just relaying something that I read.
     
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post #63 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The only combo I recalled you having your 8320 set up with was the 970 ud3 with a 212 cm cooler, which is a near perfect recipe for disappointment.

Because it OC'd like 15% less than top end setups? How is it that 15% more FPS make or break AMD performance?

Just curious, I might be missing something wrong with the board/cooler since I never used gigabyte/coolermaster myself.

edit: oh I see in the post above a mention of throttling, I guess that explains that! Didn't expect the board to be that weak, considering I've been having very stable performance on a similarly priced asus with 6+2 phases back when I was on an FX 8 core. (it also encoded like a boss! Moved on because 144hz, though.)
Edited by Tivan - 9/30/15 at 3:34pm
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post #64 of 89
First off i see your point and respect your opinion.

But the current Software is the real reason, not the Hardware, for the great performance of modern Intel Dual Cores processors, regarding gaming specially.

DX9/DX11 as we all know depends a lot on single thread performance, and developers are way limited to ''How they can control the CPU Power Processing/Resources''.

Today much of this control is poorly done by the FrameWork (DX9~10~11) and DirectX12 and Mantle are designed to change that. To give the developers much more freedom on the use of the CPU instructions and cores.

Developers already proved that the future is not sequencial processing routines anymore, a trend that lasted several years. But multicore processing routines. Today we are ''Living in the Past" regarding games and some desktop SoftWare.

See the bad thing is most of games being release by these days (and near future??) are coded on 2010~2014 engines. Still DX11 engines. We have some Mantle games but just a few if i remmenber..

But Windows10 has been just released. We dont have Dx12 games yet but Mantle gives us a great idea of the scenario.

The fact is you can gain way more performance with parallel processing, but for the developer requires an diferent "Way of Thinking and Coding", and others FrameWorks too. By today standarts, the minimum is a high clock Quad Core processor. Dual cores days are gone, what you see is a last breath.

In my view we are starting a new era. Just like the change from Single Core to Dual Cores processors, "and software that can use it".

And just because a old game/engine run at 130fps on Intel i3, and run at 90fps in the AMD FX 83XX, does not mean unplayable in the AMD CPU. However this trend is dying.

Buy a Dual Cores processors today, may be good for now (for "old" games most), but no good for tomorrow.

But for sure you dont care about that (??), perhaps you have the resources $$$ to change your CPU several times in a short period.

Most people dont have too much $$, (the access to Hardware is limited and very expensive on some Countries) and when have it, prefers/need to use it wisely thinking ahead. This also dont always mean that the people are too poor, or have a bad life.

Sorry for the long post. Best luck with your i3 !

thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vispor View Post

Get an i3 or even a Pentium and you'll get better FPS.

Edited by jclafi - 10/1/15 at 4:57am
post #65 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

Very inconsistent performance. Lower settings then I expected. Overall less smooth gameplay.
I did have the 8320 (212 evo) with that 970a-ud3 at first. I faced major throttling issues. I then moved to that 990 (H100i) and after a bios update did not suffer throttling issues. I bought that FX 6300 later (built a system for my ol'lady). It paired up nicely with the 970a.

When I originally planned my FX build I was going to get a FX-6300/970a-ud3. The day I ordered it the FX-8320 was on sale for $145 vs the norm for that time of $160. I ended up getting the 8320 without considering the fact that I should of also gotten a different mobo. Noob builder mistake there.
I read that some games (Far Cry 4 off hand) won't even load without altering config files on a dual core. I haven't looked into it myself. Just relaying something that I read.

What games do you play? I build 3 systems based on FX83** + 280X one of which was mine and didnt expirience any problems and I do play a lot smile.gif
PS. Do you ever play with fraps on?
post #66 of 89
"..Very inconsistent performance. Lower settings then I expected. Overall less smooth gameplay...."

Chargeit thanks for the few words.

See i think that your statement is too generic, a bit confuse and some way biased.

I still have Win7 64 and dont have performance problems with players, browsers, IDE´s, video rendering/compressing, desktop usage, even games run way good with my ageing R9 280X.

Comparing my system with friends i5, FX and even older i7 its really hard to find a noticeable diference. Really hard ! Most games are GPU limited, so.... I dont use 640x480 resolution, nobody uses. Those same friends also have Win10 and all say, the CPU resources are much better used, also desktop programs are better executed with the Win10 improvements on FX architecture.

I have a close friend (stock i5 owner) who always say to me: "Man this dirt cheap AMD FX is a bullet, and is smooth as my i5 in recent games!". (2015 Wolfeinstein Old Blood/New Order, Company of Heroes2 are great examples)

This leads me to believe that or is a user failure, software issue (bad windows instalation, spywares, AntiVirus), VRM/CPU overheat problem (very commom), crappy motherboards, drivers instalation problems, BIOS setting issues, Hard drives issues, Parked Cores, etc, your bad FX experience.

Please nothing personal, but its hard to agree with you, i have experienced both sides and its not the way you say.

Yes Intel is faster, not arguing, but FX are far from a bad experience, or have to use "Lower settings then I expected" and even "Overall less smooth". Even in Single Thread cenarios.

I have a lot of respect about your opinion, and for the right you have to say it.

Enjoy your Hardware.

thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

Very inconsistent performance. Lower settings then I expected. Overall less smooth gameplay.
I did have the 8320 (212 evo) with that 970a-ud3 at first. I faced major throttling issues. I then moved to that 990 (H100i) and after a bios update did not suffer throttling issues. I bought that FX 6300 later (built a system for my ol'lady). It paired up nicely with the 970a.

When I originally planned my FX build I was going to get a FX-6300/970a-ud3. The day I ordered it the FX-8320 was on sale for $145 vs the norm for that time of $160. I ended up getting the 8320 without considering the fact that I should of also gotten a different mobo. Noob builder mistake there.
I read that some games (Far Cry 4 off hand) won't even load without altering config files on a dual core. I haven't looked into it myself. Just relaying something that I read.

Edited by jclafi - 10/1/15 at 7:20am
post #67 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by adi6293 View Post

What games do you play? I build 3 systems based on FX83** + 280X one of which was mine and didnt expirience any problems and I do play a lot smile.gif
PS. Do you ever play with fraps on?

All kinds of games. I favor open world games. However, I play everything from fps to 4x.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jclafi View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"..Very inconsistent performance. Lower settings then I expected. Overall less smooth gameplay...."

Chargeit thanks for the few words.

See i think that your statement is too generic, a bit confuse and some way biased. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I still have Win7 64 and dont have performance problems with players, browsers, IDE´s, video rendering/compressing, desktop usage, even games run way good with my ageing R9 280X.

Comparing my system with friends i5, FX and even older i7 its really hard to find a noticeable diference. Really hard ! Most games are GPU limited, so.... I dont use 640x480 resolution, nobody uses. Those same friends also have Win10 and all say, the CPU resources are much better used, also desktop programs are better executed with the Win10 improvements on FX architecture.

I have a close friend (stock i5 owner) who always say to me: "Man this dirt cheap AMD FX is a bullet, and is smooth as my i5 in recent games!". (2015 Wolfeinstein Old Blood/New Order, Company of Heroes2 are great examples)

This leads me to believe that or is a user failure, software issue (bad windows instalation, spywares, AntiVirus), VRM/CPU overheat problem (very commom), crappy motherboards, drivers instalation problems, BIOS setting issues, Hard drives issues, Parked Cores, etc, your bad FX experience.

Please nothing personal, but its hard to agree with you, i have experienced both sides and its not the way you say.

Yes Intel is faster, not arguing, but FX are for from a bad experience, or have to use "Lower settings then I expected" and even "Overall less smooth". Even in Single Thread cenarios.

I have a lot of respect about your opinion, and for the right you have to say it.

Enjoy your Hardware.

thumb.gif

If it sounds kind of generic it's because it has been over a year and a half since I made the move to Intel. The details of my issues are kind of past memory.

However, the recent switch from using FX to a i5 in my wife's system was more recent. She plays Guild Wars 2. In raids/areas she would pull 7 - 12 fps on her FX chip she now pulls 18 - 22 fps. Still sounds bad, but, she has no complaints now. Before she called it unplayable, as I've mentioned. There were also spots that she said got worse then the 7 - 12 fps range that she refused to go in. Now she has no issues in any raid/area. I didn't personally see the worst case areas to say how they ran. I can say that now when I watch her play things seem much smoother when craps hitting the fan.


As far as user error is concerned I've ran at both OC and stock settings with similar results. Even when OC'ed I stay well within acceptable levels and stress tested/benched my OC's to insure they were stable and they improved performance. I have not OC'ed my current Intel based systems since I don't feel the need.
     
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post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclafi View Post

First off i see your point and respect your opinion.

I have a close friend (stock i5 owner) who always say to me: "Man this dirt cheap AMD FX is a bullet, and is smooth as my i5 in recent games!". (2015 Wolfeinstein Old Blood/New Order, Company of Heroes2 are great examples)

This leads me to believe that or is a user failure, software issue (bad windows instalation, spywares, AntiVirus), VRM/CPU overheat problem (very commom), crappy motherboards, drivers instalation problems, BIOS setting issues, Hard drives issues, Parked Cores, etc, your bad FX experience.

Nah, come on! It's always AMD's fault!

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/skyrim-performance.454192695/

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2423448/270x-6300-poor-performance-skyrim.html

^ And the legend, continues... how come my modded Skyrim on Ultra (except shadows on high) with FXAA post proccess injector (140 esp + HD 1K-2K textures for everything except grass) loads 4 cores, can't load any of them 100% and i get 55-60 fps everywhere with driver cap at 60fps, except from small 1 sec drops to 40-45 because i am VRAM limited in areas with heavy textures, is a mystery. But it's AMD's fault, i am sure. Or my FX is better than their FX). Without cap at 60 fps, i remember seeing over 100 fps. And people with better GPU, are told "it's your FX buddy, sorry".
Edited by Undervolter - 10/1/15 at 2:42am
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post #69 of 89
In vanilla Skyrim I would get drops to the 40's in cities. Any time I'd face a city I'd drop fps. In 3rd person view this means spinning your view around a city would stutter (anywhere around a city). This would of been with a GTX 780. More then enough to handle vanilla Skyrim at 1080p @ a steady 60 fps.

*Blame it on instruction sets or whatever. Still is how it works out.
     
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post #70 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

In vanilla Skyrim I would get drops to the 40's in cities. Any time I'd face a city I'd drop fps. In 3rd person view this means spinning your view around a city would stutter (anywhere around a city). This would of been with a GTX 780. More then enough to handle vanilla Skyrim at 1080p @ a steady 60 fps.

*Blame it on instruction sets or whatever. Still is how it works out.

Skyrim has serious engine and ini problems, none of which are to be blamed to FX. If you google "Skyrim stuttering when turning", "Skyrim microstuttering", you will find this is something notorious and with 100 different possible theories and solutions. Bethesda has even made the mistake, to put the setting to enable vsync (iPresetInterval=1) into skyrimpref.ini, instead of skyrim.ini, with the result, that the setting doesn't work.

To add insult to injury, in my case, Enboost (with graphical modifications disabled) only makes the game worse and i ended up running without it and i am 100% CTD free now that there is SKSE 1.7.3 with memory fix. I suspect because Enboost reserves a chunk of VRAM to swap textures, but in my GPU's case, this is worse than running without enboost.

The problem is this: When the stuttering comes to Intel users, "it's the game's fault". When it comes to FX users "it's the FX's fault".

I can look at any city without fps drop. I also get the 1 sec stuttering when turning around quickly, but i gave up on trying to fix it and i think it's related to textures, because it doesn't happen in dungeons, only in exteriors (the GPU has trouble to redraw the enviroment with 1GB VRAM only or simply it's the Bethesda engine that has trouble in such scenarios). "Solutions" are all over the place, from special ini settings, to lowering distant detail object, to disabling mouse acceleration etc. For me the worst stuttering when turning , is at Lakeview Manor, but that is "known issue" too. Or at other "hearthfire" homes. Even tiny houses, with few textures, cause much more stuttering when turning than Whiterun. Which means, there is something fishy in Bethesda's code when it comes to player houses. For instance, at very close distance to custom house "Thistle lodge" (over at Nexus), i get more stuttering that turning anywhere inside Whiterun, which is completely irrational.

The rest of Skyrim's problems, are mod related or bad configuration (even the guys in STEP forums have changed their recommendations several times on how to make the basic tweak of the game). And plague both Intel and AMD users. The difference is that Intel users never say "it's Intel's fault", so they immediately attribute it to Bethesda's engine (and they are actually right).

See example in 2014 (years after launch) from the STEP forums:

http://forum.step-project.com/topic/5869-stepcore-stutterfps-drops-with-a-good-pc-optimization/

^ Of course, like all the other "solutions", it doesn't work for everyone and each has his "own". In my case, if i put 512MB VRAM in Enboost, it's a disaster, because it means half of VRAM will be "reserved" for use by Enboost. If you have 4GB VRAM it may work...
Edited by Undervolter - 10/1/15 at 9:04am
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FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
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Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Scythe Katana 3 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 22" VS228HR Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor M6S 128GB Toshiba 2TB SATAIII LiteOn Blu Ray burner IHBS 112-2 Xigmatek Balder 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro 64bit Samsung S22B350H Microsoft Wired 600 Corsair VS350 
CaseMouseAudio
Lepa LPC 306 Logitech M90 Onboard 
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Dedicated Encoder
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Scythe Katana 3 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 22" VS228HR Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor M6S 128GB Toshiba 2TB SATAIII LiteOn Blu Ray burner IHBS 112-2 Xigmatek Balder 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro 64bit Samsung S22B350H Microsoft Wired 600 Corsair VS350 
CaseMouseAudio
Lepa LPC 306 Logitech M90 Onboard 
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