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[TV] Encryption might be the reason we've never heard from or been contacted by Aliens, says Snowden - Page 13

post #121 of 162
This world isn't black and white.
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post #122 of 162
Beeep... (lets see if anyone gets that reference)

Huh, no...

I really don't know where to start on this one.

1.) Any communication would be encrypted period. There is ZERO chance that they would use the same code as we do. So all communication will be encrypted to us. We would have to decrypt it to read it.

2.) If it is at the same magnitude as background noise, they would not be able to read it either. They would have to listen to every noise in the whole universe and use a computer the size of our planet to figure out what they are saying. "Hello, I need a pizza with extra cheese" would turn into a huge computer hog.

3.) They would still need things like navigation beacons and other digital noise that would be WAY above normal background levels. 99% of our digital noise does not actually contain usable information The turning on and off of millions of cellphones produces it own digital broadcast.

4.) Zero reasons to encrypt it. If they fear being overheard, they would have moved to other systems right after massive broadcasting.

Which leads to the original paradox.

When we contact aliens we will find out they are using other way to communicate.

For example.

1.) Quantum entanglement
2.) Photon entanglement
3.) Subspace transfers
4.) Stuff we can not imagine.
5.) The effects of deep space radiation destroys all communication after a few thousands light years.

If the aliens are using quantum entanglement for communication, then they would bother with encryption. Because only the sender and receiver would be able to read it.
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post #123 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Why is this forum so overflowing with conspiracy theory nutjobs?

Because humanity is overflowing with conspiracy speculators, and the population of this forum is a subset of humanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

2.) If it is at the same magnitude as background noise, they would not be able to read it either. They would have to listen to every noise in the whole universe and use a computer the size of our planet to figure out what they are saying. "Hello, I need a pizza with extra cheese" would turn into a huge computer hog.

3.) They would still need things like navigation beacons and other digital noise that would be WAY above normal background levels. 99% of our digital noise does not actually contain usable information The turning on and off of millions of cellphones produces it own digital broadcast.

Amplitude of a received signal is dependent on power and distance. If a civilization is communicating amongst themselves at local distances, they do not need signals strong enough to be easily distinguishable from the background light years away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

4.) Zero reasons to encrypt it. If they fear being overheard, they would have moved to other systems right after massive broadcasting.

Why are you assuming they can move such distances? Why are you assuming they are encrypting signals to prevent others from overhearing them?

Encryption is bordering on omnipresent for our communications, but we aren't encrypting them to prevent aliens from understanding them. Likewise, we aren't frequently sending signals meant to be easily detectable at interstellar distances...though some certainly would be, desire and equipment permitting, if one knew what to look for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

1.) Quantum entanglement
2.) Photon entanglement

If functionally implemented, would be beyond our ability eavesdrop on, and thus irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

3.) Subspace

Probably fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

4.) Stuff we can not imagine.

No point in looking for what we cannot imagine.

[quote name="RiverOfIce" url="/t/1574455/tv-encryption-might-be-the-reason-weve-never-heard-from-or-been-contacted-by-aliens-says-snowden/120#post_24448743"5.) The effects of deep space radiation destroys all communication after a few thousands light years.[/QUOTE]

No it doesn't.
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post #124 of 162
This thread makes my brain hurt redface.gif
Thanks Blameless, Duckie and a few others for not letting the nonsense take over the thread completely.
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post #125 of 162
I think Snowden might have overstepped his professional realm here with this statement. Encrypted data can pretty much always easily be filtered from background static. Encryption leads to patterns that can be identified and recognized as not naturally occurring.

Take this thought experiment. Take a chalkboard, and fill half of the board with random 1s and 0s as generated by a RNG. Now have any number of humans collaborate on designing a random set of 1s and 0s to replicate the random generation on the second half of the board, and compare the sequences. The differences will be visually obvious. The numbers of large runs will often be greater in the truly random sequence, as an example.

The end point is that all artificially derived data sequences carry distinct markers that a skilled scientist can use to distinguish them from random numbers. While this does not help us decrypt the signal, it does help us identify the signal itself.
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post #126 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

I wouldn't consider it far-fetched at all.... assuming radio waves are the physical medium.

The signals must have some form of error-correcting and compression. While not technically encryption, these two features themselves may scramble a clear signal to just noise to a casual observer.

I didn't say it was far fetched. I just said there were far more plausible explanations. Spread spectrum transmissions is error correcting and unless you know exactly which frequencies to monitor and which ones to disregard there's really not much there, It would probably be unnoticeable to a civilization like ours. If there are any advanced civilizations, it's likely they wouldn't use high power transmissions to talk to each other locally and it's likely they would have some means of direct communication for long distances. Military used to use frequency hopping over low power FM. Even though it was encrypted, the chances of catching anything is really remote unless you have equipment specifically designed to recognize it.

Our ability to detect signals is still something we're relatively new at and we're only monitoring frequencies that we deem would be acceptable for transmissions. But it is starting to look like there's something really wrong with the assumptions of the Drake Equation.
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post #127 of 162
Assuming their technology is the same as ours.
It may be completely incompatible with ours, with our tools not even being able to detect it at all. Like I suggested, we could be getting alien signals and not even know it.

I'm sure there's rays that we cannot detect... things beyond infra red...communications so high and low in frequency they can't be observed.
post #128 of 162
Basically all mortals start off from the bottom of their inner selves. What I understand from this is even if you get so advanced that you get to travel through the universe you still need to protect your belongings, because aliens are just like humans... a threat to themselves, primitive. I don't thinks so. If a society gets so advanced that can reach out solar system/planet they must have the intelligence to not destroy everything in their way and have their means to protect them selves without being offensive. I know the universe is a hostile place but definitely not evil.
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post #129 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Use View Post

. I don't thinks so. If a society gets so advanced that can reach out solar system/planet they must have the intelligence to not destroy everything in their way and have their means to protect them selves without being offensive. I know the universe is a hostile place but definitely not evil.

Look at us. Why will we be expanding to the Moon and Mars. And asteroids and other moons? To mine resources.

An advanced species could see us as a source of already mined and refined resources.
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post #130 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post

Look at us. Why will we be expanding to the Moon and Mars. And asteroids and other moons? To mine resources.

An advanced species could see us as a source of already mined and refined resources.

My image of aliens is more friendly. I see advanced species from other universes societies who do not need anything physical and their purpose of being we would not understand. But with your username, I see your point.

People get fooled by their imagination.
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