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[TV] Encryption might be the reason we've never heard from or been contacted by Aliens, says Snowden - Page 14

post #131 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Use View Post

My image of aliens is more friendly. I see advanced species from other universes societies who do not need anything physical and their purpose of being we would not understand. But with your username, I see your point.

People get fooled by their imagination.

If there was no desire for more, there would be no desire to expand.
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post #132 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

If there was no desire for more, there would be no desire to expand.

"... their purpose of being we would not understand." To picture what I mean check out a film called Lucy.
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post #133 of 162

Yea.. interesting, and thinking about it, even light which is the fastest thing we know of, would be slow for intergallactic "communications" so maybe Aliens use technology that goes beyond that speed, which would make more sense eh ! because if you have access intergallactic travel (which we always seems to assume, even I think some of those UFO's.. well you know..not gonna go into details now)

They might want to communicate with eachother mmh.. or maybe they don't

I know according to "known" physics nothing can go faster than light blabla, that's just speculation.
Edited by StrongForce - 9/26/15 at 9:08am
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post #134 of 162
Yeah, maybe right.. Not free..

We may have to purchase a decryption software from Stellersoft (the aliens version of Microsoft) as it comes in a few flavors Planetary version for earth use only, Galaxy Version for withing our known universe or the Galactic Universal Edition that gives you any and all within and beyond with free upgrades. All versions allow you to encrypt or decrypt's alien communications so you can now communicate freely.
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post #135 of 162
well in a way it makes sense. if there are other species out there that are so highly advanced, encryption would be by default. if they mastered faster than light travel, able to colonize other planets, they will most likely also have highly advanced computer systems that could easily allow anything to utilize encryption. no cost issue. such computers for them to be able to do it could be as big, and as cheap, as a a $10 digital watch at walmart. and really, think about it, for us today, that $10 digital watch at walmart is more powerful than the computer systems that put humans on the moon, computer systems that took up buildings.

and if they are some sort of highly advanced, galactic race, who is to say they too don't have war... enemies... violence. we can look no further than our own militaries, and governments, to see how important it is for them to keep secretes. you don't want your adversary to pick up your own communication channel, even if it is to talk about your galactic space cat videos.
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post #136 of 162
if anything was "local" we should pick it up if it were able to be picked up. "So advanced" does not mean ALL aliens are are 1000x smarter than us, if there is one race then there are billions and they could all be at different lvls of advancement. I think we are being watched right now .... by several types, some non harmful and some who could care less about us. If they wanted what we have we would already be in chains or dead, right now its just watching with some mild interactions we know as sightings or abductions.
post #137 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubbernewb View Post

No offense but some people are 100% sure area 51 has alien craft/alien bodys there, and if thats true they had the technology to get here, which the fact that they could travel here would mean their Technology, is somewhere like 1000x ahead of ours, im not sure if theres realy aliens or not just saying thumb.gif

let's be realistic, if someone is ahead by 1000x in tech aspect.. i'm pretty sure their not dumb enough to get captured by our dimwitted military. so no way we have any terrestrial samples unless if their like tossed around prisoners here for the fun of it by other aliens
post #138 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Because humanity is overflowing with conspiracy speculators, and the population of this forum is a subset of humanity.


Amplitude of a received signal is dependent on power and distance. If a civilization is communicating amongst themselves at local distances, they do not need signals strong enough to be easily distinguishable from the background light years away.
Why are you assuming they can move such distances? Why are you assuming they are encrypting signals to prevent others from overhearing them?

Encryption is bordering on omnipresent for our communications, but we aren't encrypting them to prevent aliens from understanding them. Likewise, we aren't frequently sending signals meant to be easily detectable at interstellar distances...though some certainly would be, desire and equipment permitting, if one knew what to look for.
If functionally implemented, would be beyond our ability eavesdrop on, and thus irrelevant.
Probably fantasy.
No point in looking for what we cannot imagine.

[quote name="RiverOfIce" url="/t/1574455/tv-encryption-might-be-the-reason-weve-never-heard-from-or-been-contacted-by-aliens-says-snowden/120#post_24448743"5.) The effects of deep space radiation destroys all communication after a few thousands light years.

No it doesn't.[/quote]

You seem to contradict yourself. Care to clarify?

Either deep space radiation disrupts long distance transmissions or it does not. You can not have it both ways.

You can not say that "oh, they are only transmitting strong enough to do it locally." But then say "the local transmission is not disrupted by long distances in space".

And as for the whole encryption argument. From our point of view, if a signal was beamed directly at us with a year suns worth of energy for 30 years, it would appear encrypted. We could detect it from background noise, but, to us, it would be completely misunderstood.

Quantum entanglement is not irrelevant BUT A ANSWER TO THE QUESTION ON WHY WE CAN NOT HEAR OTHER COMMUNICATIONS FROM ALIENS.
Quantum entanglement would be considered subspace communication. We have it working out to 60 miles.

The question was "if aliens exist, why is the galaxy not filled with communications from them?" I give 4 answers that answer the question and you say they are not relevant to the question? Really?
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post #139 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

You can not say that "oh, they are only transmitting strong enough to do it locally." But then say "the local transmission is not disrupted by long distances in space".

I said nothing of the sort.

Communications need to stand out from background noise and the worse the signal to noise ratio gets, the harder it becomes to distinguish. Local communications will standout from background noise by virtue of proximity and thus relative amplitude, but that same signal will look more and more like noise the further away it's source. If you don't know exactly what to look for, communications could easily be mistaken for noise at great enough distances.

Regular patterns standout much more clearly than apparently random noise. Good encryption seeded with true random data is not going to standout unless it's got an unusually high SNR.

If someone beams a phenomenally powerful encrypted signal at us, we may well recognize it as communication, even if we cannot understand it, because it won't match any of the natural phenomena we know about or can reasonably infer.

However, we could also be receiving a thousand faint encrypted signals from all directions of space, and be none the wiser because they would look like random noise. Only if we had the encryption key and knowledge of the algorithm could we start applying it to parts of this noise, and have a shot at identifying it as communication.

It's like if there are sticks laying all over the ground after a windstorm and I have moved some of them into shapes forming letters and words. Unless you know the alphabet I'm using you may well not be able to tell that anyone has moved them. It's easy to hide information in plain sight when the observer doesn't know what to look for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

The question was "if aliens exist, why is the galaxy not filled with communications from them?" I give 4 answers that answer the question and you say they are not relevant to the question? Really?

Lifeforms we cannot recognize as such and technologies we cannot currently understand are already excluded, perforce, by our inability to recognize/understand/observe them.

We understand carbon-water based life. So that's what can look for.

We understand electromagnetic waves and photons. So that's what we can look for.

Given the portion of civilizations that can be guesstimated to be using, or have had used, radio communications, during a window of time where we'd be in the position to intercept such signals, the question of why haven't we detected them could partially be answered by encryption.

Fantastic and speculative means of communication that we cannot reproduce and could not hope to detect do not enter into the equation. We may well safely assume they exist, but that's as far as we can go right now.
Edited by Blameless - 9/26/15 at 10:59am
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post #140 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


However, we could also be receiving a thousand faint encrypted signals from all directions of space, and be none the wiser because they would look like random noise. Only if we had the encryption key and knowledge of the algorithm could we start applying it to parts of this noise, and have a shot at identifying it as communication.

So you are saying now that I am right? Interstellar space may disrupt the lower power communications making them no more then background noise? I will remind you that we have not really been into interstellar space. We are currently on the very edge. Everything we have ever done has been in the protective envelope of the sun. So you really don't know what deep space will do to communication. Radio astronomers use hundreds of techniques to fix propagation effects that is caused by interstellar space. We really don't know what a single sent from interstellar space would look like. The effects we are currently fixing is for signals that are very loud.
Quote:
It's like if there are sticks laying all over the ground after a windstorm and I have moved some of them into shapes forming letters and words. Unless you know the alphabet I'm using you may well not be able to tell that anyone has moved them. It's easy to hide information in plain sight when the observer doesn't know what to look for.
Lifeforms we cannot recognize as such and technologies we cannot currently understand are already excluded, perforce, by our inability to recognize/understand/observe them.

We understand carbon-water based life. So that's what can look for.

We understand electromagnetic waves and photons. So that's what we can look for.

Given the portion of civilizations that can be guesstimated to be using, or have had used, radio communications, during a window of time where we'd be in the position to intercept such signals, the question of why haven't we detected them could partially be answered by encryption.

Fantastic and speculative means of communication that we cannot reproduce and could not hope to detect do not enter into the equation. We may well safely assume they exist, but that's as far as we can go right now.

Again you are agreeing with me. Encryption would be pointless because the signal itself would be hard to pickup from the noise? I am guess you never worked at a radio station. I have. Let me help you out.

If it is encrypted to be background noise, which is what the article said, it would be impossible FOR THEM to find the signal to decrypt it. I am going to give this one more time. Quantum functions cause random noise in our universe. These are a local level. So you standing right next to me will not get the same random noise that I will. It will be dynamically different. If you place encrypted data in the random noise, where do I start to decrypt it? You would have to send a master key through the universe that was not encrypted so I can find the start of your signal in your noise. The master key we would detect and the it would be noticed.

If you don't send the master key, where do I start. I could just start decrypting all random data until something starts to look good, but that would take thousands of years to do.

I can not use the random noise from my side, it is completely different then the random noise on yourside.

Bottom line. It is just not feasible to send data that way.

And what would be the point? To hide your civilization? There would be no other reason to go through all that beside not wanting anyone to know you exist.

We are not talking about reading the information, but just detecting it.

Thanks for coming around.
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