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[Various] NVIDIA Pascal GP100 Spotted in Transit (Being moved to testing phase) - Page 8

post #71 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

Can't wait for Pascal already, my 980ti is old news.
What people with money would say. Care to gift it to me then tongue.gif ?
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post #72 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

What people with money would say. Care to gift it to me then tongue.gif ?
I see you're more into €50 stuff, it's amazing sometimes that you can spend €200 for a whole PC and if you know what you're buying still be able to run the same games some other people run on €2k rigs
post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

I see you're more into €50 stuff, it's amazing sometimes that you can spend €200 for a whole PC and if you know what you're buying still be able to run the same games some other people run on €2k rigs
All due to economical reasons smile.gif
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post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

Can't wait for Pascal already, my 980ti is old news.

My gtx 670 is definitely the newest news biggrin.gif
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post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

All due to economical reasons smile.gif
Economical or not, it's fun. I'd totally be up for this after I finish my main rig. Good way to scratch the itch for building rigs, build a fully functional TW3/GTA5 rig with 4-year or more only parts biggrin.gif. Then sell it, let sb enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

My gtx 670 is definitely the newest news biggrin.gif
it's not in the obituary section yet.

totally off topic, but is anyone else experiencing problems with OCN website lately ? it runs like crap, needs to be refreshed 5 times before it works. No problems with any other websites on my rig, OCN is the only one like this.
Edited by Klocek001 - 9/27/15 at 8:00am
post #76 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

I hope nobody annihilates anyone. The last thing we need is for the next Titan to be $1500 and the next Ti to be $1000. If you mean annihilating AMD in terms of how much higher it's priced, then sure tongue.gif

Given AMD's finances, it would be best for us consumers if AMD "annihilated" Nvidia next round. If Nvidia annihilates AMD, we could be seeing the end of AMD, especially if Zen also fails.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not much point in designing a part with a large and complex GDDR5 memory controller, only to have to redesign it with an HBM controller/PHY later, and a massive waste of die area to build a part with both.

This. It'd be a huge waste of precious resources. Die space is a limited and incredibly valuable thing.

They'll want to go from HBM2 from day one and have the enterprise variant have ECC HBM2 support.








Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Actually the reason why "Big Pascal" will launch first is simple ... IBM and nVidia have a HUGE government contract to build the worlds fastest super computer and it is based on Big Pascal.

Also, that is why I have to laugh at stupid conspiracy theories about nVidia doing some fake garbage about using HBM1 with just 8 chips on the interposer and lying about the bandwidth. People who think that have obviously not worked on a government contract and know that lying about specs WILL land you 20 years in Federal Prison ... unlike lying in the civilian market. Speaking of which, any word on that stupid lawsuit where people were trying to sue nVidia for 3.5GB (when it actually does have 4GB)?

Even if it launches, it will not be for us consumers until likely 2017. It will be enterprise exclusive.

I'm not even sure that they'll launch a giant 600mm^2 die even for enterprise first. It'll probably be consumer first and then enterprise only a few months later then followed by a consumer one. I've been discussing this with a few people (who are a lot more credible than your assertions - engineers in some cases and some pretty knowledgeable tech journalists). Actually, ever since the Fermi disaster, Nvidia has quietly adopted the small die strategy. You can see this with the past 2 generations:
  • Kepler: First the 300mm^2 die then the Titan only months later even for enterprise and the following year for consumers
  • Maxwell: 750Ti > GTX 980 > Titan X
  • There's a pretty clear progression there and the risk of something going wrong is much higher with a big die on a fresh process. The reason why the Fermi was so bad was that Nvidia did not work around the process limitations. AMD back then did so with a small die (I think 4770 where they learned about the limitations of the 55nm process which proved invaluable and that was why Cypress had a good power consumption for what it offered).

So we might expect a 250-400mm^2 die first (actually maybe even a 750Ti-sized die first) then the enterprise gets the big die and only then does the consumers get the rest.

At that point, also, compute is becoming more competitive. Knight's Landing will be debuting at around that point and when Volta comes out, Knight's Hill.


Die yields would be awful for a 600mm^2 chip at a relatively new process and the risk of a Fermi-repeat would be dangerously high. Neither side is going to do a big die until they appreciate the limitations of the process.

Consider what you are asking Nvidia to do:
  • Pascal (which might entail changes comparable to from Kepler to Maxwell > SMX to SMM along with what is likely a very greatly changed front end)
  • HBM2 Memory Controller (unlike AMD, they don't have the previous experience here)
  • New node
  • Technologies such as Nvlink

And you're asking for a giant chip right away? That's a recipe for disaster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Hopefully it will be the GTX 990 and they sweep AMD's announcement of the Fury X2 and crush them even more in the marketshare.

Be careful what you wish for. If a $1k Titan is bad, watch what will happen if AMD goes under. Oh, and it's unlikely that someone will buy AMD as a whole. I've discussed that in the other thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

They don`t need to beat Fury X2, just make one with similar performance.
Since Fury X2 have 2x8 power pin, it will probably perform like 2xNano. Nano perfom like a Fury (non X). And GTX 980 is very close to a Fury.
So GTX 990 with 2 x GTX 980 with higher clocks would perform like a Fury X.

AMD will probably have to sell it above $999 while Nvidia could easily sell it for $999 due to much smaller silicon and GDDR5. While AMD have two huge dies plus 8 stacks of expensive HBM



The big advantage of HBM is not so much the bandwidth as much as it is the power efficiency. You can get a lot more bandwidth per watt by making it wide and slow, which is what HBM has done. Fury X would be much hotter were it to use a GDDR5 controller and would have lower bandwidth. The small form factor too would not be possible.

Actually, with GDDR5, I'm not sure that if you were to tie it to Pascal whether or not the GPU itself might prove to be bandwidth starved. It's possible, probable even. Remember you're talking a GPU with a lot more power than Maxwell and that is already pushing the limits here. HBM removes that problem and HBM2 will address the 4GB issue.
Edited by CrazyElf - 9/27/15 at 8:18am
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post #77 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Given AMD's finances, it would be best for us consumers if AMD "annihilated" Nvidia next round. If Nvidia annihilates AMD, we could be seeing the end of AMD, especially if Zen also fails.
This. It'd be a huge waste of precious resources. Die space is a limited and incredibly valuable thing.

They'll want to go from HBM2 from day one and have the enterprise variant have ECC HBM2 support.
Even if it launches, it will not be for us consumers until likely 2017. It will be enterprise exclusive.

I'm not even sure that they'll launch a giant 600mm^2 die even for enterprise first. It'll probably be consumer first and then enterprise only a few months later then followed by a consumer one. I've been discussing this with a few people (who are a lot more credible than your assertions - engineers in some cases and some pretty knowledgeable tech journalists). Actually, ever since the Fermi disaster, Nvidia has quietly adopted the small die strategy. You can see this with the past 2 generations:
  • Kepler: First the 300mm^2 die then the Titan only months later even for enterprise and the following year for consumers
  • Maxwell: 750Ti > GTX 980 > Titan X
  • There's a pretty clear progression there and the risk of something going wrong is much higher with a big die on a fresh process. The reason why the Fermi was so bad was that Nvidia did not work around the process limitations. AMD back then did so with a small die (I think 4770 where they learned about the limitations of the 55nm process which proved invaluable and that was why Cypress had a good power consumption for what it offered).

So we might expect a 250-400mm^2 die first (actually maybe even a 750Ti-sized die first) then the enterprise gets the big die and only then does the consumers get the rest.

At that point, also, compute is becoming more competitive. Knight's Landing will be debuting at around that point and when Volta comes out, Knight's Hill.


Die yields would be awful for a 600mm^2 chip at a relatively new process and the risk of a Fermi-repeat would be dangerously high. Neither side is going to do a big die until they appreciate the limitations of the process.

Consider what you are asking Nvidia to do:
  • Pascal (which might entail changes comparable to from Kepler to Maxwell > SMX to SMM along with what is likely a very greatly changed front end)
  • HBM2 Memory Controller (unlike AMD, they don't have the previous experience here)
  • New node
  • Technologies such as Nvlink

And you're asking for a giant chip right away? That's a recipe for disaster.
Be careful what you wish for. If a $1k Titan is bad, watch what will happen if AMD goes under. Oh, and it's unlikely that someone will buy AMD as a whole. I've discussed that in the other thread.
The big advantage of HBM is not so much the bandwidth as much as it is the power efficiency. You can get a lot more bandwidth per watt by making it wide and slow, which is what HBM has done. Fury X would be much hotter were it to use a GDDR5 controller and would have lower bandwidth. The small form factor too would not be possible.

Actually, with GDDR5, I'm not sure that if you were to tie it to Pascal whether or not the GPU itself might prove to be bandwidth starved. It's possible, probable even. Remember you're talking a GPU with a lot more power than Maxwell and that is already pushing the limits here. HBM removes that problem and HBM2 will address the 4GB issue.

I think the competitive graphics card market as we know it, might be dead next generation. I think a monopoly is inevitable along with slow development.

Costs have risen too much in the cost of production and the R and D expenditure is too high for the return on investment. People talk about Nvidia having record margins and profits, but they really don't generate that much money considering they have close to a monopoly right now. As I said earlier, subtract Intels, 50-60 million dollar payment, and your looking at a so so 100 million dollars a quarter or so. Considering the market situation, this is basically best case scenario(high profit margins/record market share). Add in the price of wafers is going up a minimum 50% considering the raw cost for TSMC is rising 80-90%.

The only way too companies can succeed next generation is either through price fixing or through a drastic decrease in R and D.
post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

Can't wait for Pascal already, my 980ti is old news.

I am glad you said this, because it is why I never jumped from my 780 Ti. For all the things Maxwell did end up doing, it was still a very "meh" sort of product. At least for 780 and higher users. There are a lot of people chomping at the bit for Pascal.
    
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post #79 of 87
Not to mention the coil whine lottery you had to play with Maxwell to get a card that was "kind of tolerable".

For 980 Ti I decided to splurge and bought a Classy, and man what a headache it turned out to be. The first card I received was a GREAT overclocker, easily did 1530/8200 on stock volts despite 71% ASIC. The catch? That goddamn coil whine (buzz might be a more accurate description). I mean I sit about 4-5 feet away from my case, and I could still hear the whine even above my speakers unless I really cranked them. Decided to see if I could burn in the coil whine after a week of high usage but that didn't work. So I exchanged for a second one. Somehow the buzzing on the second one managed to be WORSE, and despite a similar 70% ASIC, it definitely wasn't a good overclocker, and could barely even do 1500 stable on stock volts. In any case, I did try with another AX1200i PSU I had lying around, but I got the same coil whine. In the end I decided the Classy and my rig just weren't meant to be together, so I returned it altogether.

Then got a great deal on an MSI 980 Ti Gaming, and I'm still deciding what to do with this one. At first I thought there was coil whine (actual high pitched whining) even at idle, but eventually it turned out it was just my water pump. However, there is some very slight coil buzz at idle, this buzzing is so quiet I literally have to stick my head right next to the card to hear it. But because of physics there appears to be some freakish harmonic resonance between my water pump and that buzz, which turns it into this almost squeal like noise that drives me bonkers. However it turns out I might be imagining the squeal somewhat, but I think somehow this noise has been burned into my brain now. mad.gifrolleyes.giffrown.gif Card still does whine under load, but this one is special in that it seems once the coils have sufficiently heated up, the whine goes away. Because after 3-5 minutes of gaming, I can only hear the whine if I actually mute the game and try to listen for it. Card also isn't a great overclocker either (despite a drool worthy 77.5% ASIC), can barely push 1520 core on 1.25V, and memory doesn't seem to like to go beyond 7600 and even then it's not 100% stable. I'm hoping it's because the stock cooler simply can't cope with the massive heat generated (card pulls around 380-400W during intensive games), and putting it under water will help.

But yeah, I'm really tired of having to play the coil whine and RMA lottery at this point, and as long as I can find some way to dial out that squeal at idle, I'm keeping this card. Sorry for the rant.
post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I am glad you said this, because it is why I never jumped from my 780 Ti. For all the things Maxwell did end up doing, it was still a very "meh" sort of product. At least for 780 and higher users. There are a lot of people chomping at the bit for Pascal.
I never said it's meh. Actually it's the furthest thing from it. Even jumping from overclocked 980 G1 to 980ti was a huge leap, at least 20fps in TW3. IDK how much faster is that gonna be comparing to 780Ti, but 980Ti almost doubled the fps I was getting at 1440p with 290 trix .I just get bored with cards really quick.
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