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[TweakTown] Valve isn't excited over DX12, but talks up the Vulkan API - Page 14

post #131 of 181
lol like I give a damn about what valve thinks.
post #132 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

The real question is. In this day and age, can we really afford to take someones word for it? I Blindly trust NO company.
unless the said companies survival depends on going against MS wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Yeah no. Windows 10 market share is really low. I would agree if we had dx12 + win7,8. But now not that much.

Ashes of singularity will come with vulcan support too,dice is also part of kronos group development.
Issue is that now Win10 downloads itself onto Win7 8 8.1 on its own, and they already setup telemetry spying even on older systems
anyway here is the marketshare tough its only on monthly basis. the first month might be skewed as it counts the same pc as both win7881 and win10. so really after a lot of people uninstalled win10 maybe september data will be more realistic, but since win10 installs itself these days ... i believe we will really know in november how it really looks like
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

tough steam data did have a pretty large jump for win10 as in 20+% i believe it was

Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

To be honest, DOTA is probably the last game to actually need Vulkan or DX12 support. There are smartphones that nearly meet the minimum specs for that game.

What I am sad about is that Valve's anti-MS stance is jading them toward DX12. They are no longer a neutral developer, they are a publisher fiercely defending against the perceived threat of the MS store. Whichever API turns out to be "better" (personally I doubt there will be much in it), you can guarantee Valve will go with Vulkan.

That bias also, sadly, renders their opinion and public statements on the two APIs completely worthless.
20 years ago: Netscape is no longer neutral developer, how does he dare to compete with Microsoft
ou wait, it was Microsoft who attacked valves core business, so valve is now just defending itself to not end up as Netscape did

Mantle had 20 games planned on it including BF4, hardline, SW Battlefront, SC. the ones like SC and other independent onces will have vulkan, but since EA is a strategic partner of MS and AMD looks pretty much like its on MS menu for aquisition (even tough US and EU anti trust offices should be highly alarmed about it) mantle was killed. for whatever reason it wasnt burried as usually thats what MS does to competition

but i guess they could go and sue the software patents the hell out of vulkan backers, well in US
post #133 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

Vulkan is not out yet because no driver support. Dota 2 is on source2 but till we get drivers, we cannot play on its Vulkan API backend.

I also wonder when Vulkan will be out, very excited.
i dont know if we have learned something from valve(besides that they dont know how to count) is that they dont showcase their engines with a low level game...
also the reason as to why s2 isnt fully out yet its exactly that they are either making a tech demo with hl3 (given what we know about the jiira leak files they should have a working alpha version of it..)or some other big title
post #134 of 181
Why is DX12 even important to have? I rather be able to play my games on any of my devices. If Vulkan provides a way for developers to release a good product to more customers, that is a good thing unless you are very pro Microsoft.
post #135 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mardon View Post

The Steam OS creators are not excited about Microsoft's API... I'm shocked!!

This.

DirectX isn't going anywhere, nor is it in any danger of being dethroned as the only API that is actually relevant on PC. Competition from Vulkan would be nice in some ways, but the reality is that nothing and no one - including Valve - is in a position to challenge M$ and DX12.

It's Microsoft's market to lose, and they've done enough right with Win10 and DX12 that I don't think they'll lose it here.
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post #136 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

Why is DX12 even important to have? I rather be able to play my games on any of my devices. If Vulkan provides a way for developers to release a good product to more customers, that is a good thing unless you are very pro Microsoft.

DX12 is simply a representation of the newest in the DX line. MS has historically been at the forefront of PC gaming and gaming software.; even to this day it remains the only relevant option for pc gamers that are even remotely interested in the majority of game releases. Vulcan is a excellent concept but something that has repeatedly failed in the past. Its not simply a matter of making the API available (though this is the first step), its also software integration, hardware integration, building a game library, advanced tool sets, etc. While Vulcan does open the potential consumer base immensely its not necessarily a consumer base that is going to be interested in gaming. It will take quite some time and some considerable backing for Vulcan to be an actual competitor to DX as far as performance and adoption, if it ever achieves such a thing.
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post #137 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woundingchaney View Post

DX12 is simply a representation of the newest in the DX line. MS has historically been at the forefront of PC gaming and gaming software.; even to this day it remains the only relevant option for pc gamers that are even remotely interested in the majority of game releases. Vulcan is a excellent concept but something that has repeatedly failed in the past. Its not simply a matter of making the API available (though this is the first step), its also software integration, hardware integration, building a game library, advanced tool sets, etc. While Vulcan does open the potential consumer base immensely its not necessarily a consumer base that is going to be interested in gaming. It will take quite some time and some considerable backing for Vulcan to be an actual competitor to DX as far as performance and adoption, if it ever achieves such a thing.

I am not just talking about PC gaming. I am talking about mobile and console games such as Nintendo/Sony Playstation. To be honest, DX12 is not going to matter much since games are going to be limited by the console version. PC gaming is an afterthought for Microsoft since they rather have everyone on the Xbox consoles with Xbox Live accounts.
Edited by Riou - 9/26/15 at 3:48am
post #138 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

I am not just talking about PC gaming. I am talking about mobile and console games such as Nintendo/Sony Playstation. To be honest, DX12 is not going to matter much since games are going to be limited by the console version. PC gaming is an afterthought for Microsoft since they rather have everyone on the Xbox consoles with Xbox Live accounts.

Mobile and console gaming have always had this option, in fact pc gaming does as well. OpenGl has been the go to option for programmers outside of DX for years and it has seen quite a bit of success though it simply has never gained the traction that DX has come to find. Its also not as if this concept isn't being addressed by DX12. One of the biggest pushes for DX in the last few years is to bring the api to the mobile market. So when we look at gaming as a unified platform (pc, console, mobile, etc) there are various options to choose from, while none of them being mature, DX simply has much larger pc market adoption and pedigree. If MS moved DX away from being exclusively tied the Windows platform there would be widespread adoption of the api. One of the major selling points even of OpenGl is its compatibility with DX.

If x86 ever comes to the phone market in mass (it has had some limited releases in Eur and China) this significantly boosts DX's stance. There has been a good bit of movement from Intel to bring x86 to phones, but its essentially an issue of it being financially feasible.

The primary issue is that DX is tied exclusively to MS's platforms (at least I'm not aware of any way to license it for use on a non-MS platform), so there has always been a search for a substitute.

Realistically there has been quite a bit of discussion as to DX being one of the worst performing apis available, but its tool sets and familiarity amongst the development community is virtually unmatched.
Edited by Woundingchaney - 9/26/15 at 4:24am
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post #139 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

20 years ago: Netscape is no longer neutral developer, how does he dare to compete with Microsoft
ou wait, it was Microsoft who attacked valves core business, so valve is now just defending itself to not end up as Netscape did

Mantle had 20 games planned on it including BF4, hardline, SW Battlefront, SC. the ones like SC and other independent onces will have vulkan, but since EA is a strategic partner of MS and AMD looks pretty much like its on MS menu for aquisition (even tough US and EU anti trust offices should be highly alarmed about it) mantle was killed. for whatever reason it wasnt burried as usually thats what MS does to competition

but i guess they could go and sue the software patents the hell out of vulkan backers, well in US

In this situation Microsoft isn't the evil, hulking behemoth for once. Valve is.

Valve have a stranglehold on PC game sales, no one can really compete and anyone who isn't a major publisher in their own right (EA) is forced to sell games via Steam.

Valve have seen a potential competitor (not that anyone really expects the MS store to take off, do they?) and they're doing all they can to damage Windows as a gaming platform. IMHO that isn't a healthy strategy when they don't have a viable alternative and 99% of their sales are for the platform they are attacking.
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post #140 of 181
Funny how this thread is turned into a Valve is evil because they have a stronglehold on pc game sales and MS is good.
Thats not what this thread is about its about Vulkan and DX12 and even if you hate Valve you would still benefit from supporting Vulkan.
    
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