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[WCCF] AMD contracts TSMC to produce Zen @ 16nm instead of 14nm @ Globalfoundries (Updated) - Page 6

post #51 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Because microprocessor design is really, really hard. Brain surgery? Piece of cake. Rocket science? Really easy. CPU design? Everything put together probably makes it the most complicated undertaking in human history. And yet, companies like AMD and Intel can churn out new designs on a very frequent basis.

They almost certainly did, actually. Whether or not it's true is very different, as WCCF and truth are often not the same.

That's what I meant to convey, that WCCF claiming that Zen would be comparable to Skylake, yeah I call bull.
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post #52 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Because microprocessor design is really, really hard. Brain surgery? Piece of cake. Rocket science? Really easy. CPU design? Everything put together probably makes it the most complicated undertaking in human history. And yet, companies like AMD and Intel can churn out new designs on a very frequent basis.

As for the Chinese company, do you mean Rockchip? They aren't making their own CPUs. They're using ARM's already-existing Cortex designs.
C'mon. It's one thing to doubt whether or not a claim is true. But it's another thing entirely to doubt that WCCF actually said it!

They almost certainly did, actually. Whether or not it's true is very different, as WCCF and truth are often not the same.
Brain surgery may be a piece of cake in comparison especially since a small group of doctors and assistants can do it already but rocket science certainly is not. Rocket science is just as hard if not harder and the cost of failure is in the same range of millions to billions depending on how much you're taking up.

The work on the nodes is probably a lot harder and more complex than just the Intel and AMD designs.
post #53 of 220
That hasn't been remotely true for a very long time though.
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post #54 of 220
I dont think that amd will reach haswell performance. The point is that they dont need to reach these numbers to be competitive. If they can reach sandy bridge ipc with freq around 3.4 then zen will be a really solid product.
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post #55 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Missed the part in the WCCF Tech article where they claimed that Zen will be on par IPC wise with Skylake:

Excevator:
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

Skylake:

Single Core: 183
Multi Core: 447


Zen:
Single Core: 83*1.4 = 116 +/- 10% = 104 - 127
Multi Core: 227 * 1.4 = 317 +/- 10% = 285 - 349


Good luck...
post #56 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I dont think that amd will reach haswell performance. The point is that they dont need to reach these numbers to be competitive. If they can reach sandy bridge ipc with freq around 3.4 then zen will be a really solid product.

If it can overclock to 4.0 - 4.2 on all 8 cores, but that'll cost around $300 - $400 max.

All Intel has to do is drop a Skylake-E 8 core for $600. But anyway, AMD will be at least competitive again and can improve from there
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post #57 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Missed the part in the WCCF Tech article where they claimed that Zen will be on par IPC wise with Skylake:

Excevator:
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

Skylake:

Single Core: 183
Multi Core: 447


Zen:
Single Core: 83*1.4 = 116 +/- 10% = 104 - 127
Multi Core: 227 * 1.4 = 317 +/- 10% = 285 - 349


Good luck...


This fails on a number of different levels:

-Multicore is not applicable because Excavator and Zen use completely different designs.
-Singlecore does not tell us the frequencies.
-Benchmark used is not given.
-Instruction sets used are not given.
-Dependence on cache not given since Excavator has 1MiB L2 per module while Skylake has less L2 and more importantly a large L3.
-Whether it is primarily integer or floating-point based is not given.

Do you have a source? Until you provide context, those numbers are worthless.
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post #58 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

This fails on a number of different levels:

-Multicore is not applicable because Excavator and Zen use completely different designs.
-Singlecore does not tell us the frequencies.
-Benchmark used is not given.
-Instruction sets used are not given.
-Dependence on cache not given since Excavator has 1MiB L2 per module while Skylake has less L2 and more importantly a large L3.
-Whether it is primarily integer or floating-point based is not given.

Do you have a source? Until you provide context, those numbers are worthless.
He has been doing such stuff on all AMD threads. I bet he will leave a Cinebench graph.
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post #59 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king".

JK is a great engineer, however even he cannot turn water into wine.

There is a huge cult of personality thing going on around JK and it is getting ridiculous. Soon there will probably be stories about how he completed an 18 hole golf course with 17 swings or how he made his first CPU design at age of four. Most likely he had teeth in his mouth and could walk too on the same day he was born. You´ll probably get what I mean. This kind of stuff you hear from North Korea.

Not to disrespect JK or depreciate his great career in the slightest of course smile.gif

It is far from a cult of personality. Jim has a proven record of doing exactly what AMD wants him to have done. From the sounds of it they gave him the freedom and money to do it. Which would make sense, considering Zen is pretty much AMD's Hail Mary at this point. I don't know a single person that thinks they could survive a Zen failure.

If Keller didn't have such a proven history, then you could call it a cult. That isn't the case though.
    
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post #60 of 220
If this dude is the Messiah of AMD, why would he leave and not bask in glory?
 
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