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[WCCF] AMD contracts TSMC to produce Zen @ 16nm instead of 14nm @ Globalfoundries (Updated) - Page 7

post #61 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

If this dude is the Messiah of AMD, why would he leave and not bask in glory?

Because that is what he has done with every architecture he has designed for a company. He has worked all over the industry, doing architecture design for all the major players.

His job was done, so he left.
    
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post #62 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

This fails on a number of different levels:

-Multicore is not applicable because Excavator and Zen use completely different designs.
-Singlecore does not tell us the frequencies.
-Benchmark used is not given.
-Instruction sets used are not given.
-Dependence on cache not given since Excavator has 1MiB L2 per module while Skylake has less L2 and more importantly a large L3.
-Whether it is primarily integer or floating-point based is not given.

Do you have a source? Until you provide context, those numbers are worthless.

Numbers are not useless because you havent seen them before. wink.gif

FX-8800p up to 3.4GHz
Cinebench R15
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

i7-6700HQ up to 3.5GHz
Cinebench R15
Single: 147
Multi Core: 677

Zen is said to add 40% better IPC which obviously takes "completely different designs" in to consideration.

There is no chance in hell Zen is matching Skylake as its almost 80% above Bulldozer in Single core. Multi Core is over twice as high.

Id be mighty impressed if AMD managed to though but that almost seem like a miracle to happen with these numbers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

He has been doing such stuff on all AMD threads. I bet he will leave a Cinebench graph.
You are seriously like a broken box and are unable to contribute with anything with even the slightest useful content in your posts. You don`t have to write anything when you dont have anything intelligent to say than to troll and to start drama
Edited by iLeakStuff - 9/25/15 at 3:04pm
post #63 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Numbers are not useless because you havent seen them before. wink.gif

Never claimed otherwise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post


Do you have a source? Until you provide context, those numbers are worthless.

Anyway.

Quote:
FX-8800p up to 3.4GHz
Cinebench R15
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

i7-6700HQ up to 3.5GHz
Cinebench R15
Single: 147
Multi Core: 677

Zen is said to add 40% better IPC which obviously takes "completely different designs" in to consideration.

There is no chance in hell Zen is matching Skylake as its almost 80% above Bulldozer in Single core. Multi Core is over twice as high.

Oh look, that completely falls apart. Why? Inherent differences in how AMD and Intel handle Turbo Core and Boost, respectively, are the obvious ones. But let's dig deeper.

FX-8800P

i7-6700HQ

So what do we have here? We have a horrible comparison. Why? Well, take a look at the frequencies and the TDPs. FX-8800P has a base frequency of 2.1GHz and a turbo speed of 3.4GHz with only a 15W TDP. Know what that means? It throttles. It throttles long before the i7. Because the i7-6700HQ has a base frequency of 2.6GHz, and turbo frequencies of 3.5GHz (one core), 3.3GHz (two cores), or 3.1GHz (three or four cores) in addition to a much higher 45W TDP.

Now, how does a processor's turbo speed work? Well, it relies on a number of factors. The important ones are power drawn, temperature, and of course load on the CPU. If the CPU is idle, it will drop to a slower frequency. If a CPU exceeds some predefined power threshold, it will throttle. And if a CPU exceeds a certain temperature, it will throttle. I'll be nice and assume the chips were both well-cooled, and it's pretty obvious that there was a heavy enough load that turbo speeds would be available. But power consumption? That limit is usually close to the TDP. In the 8800P's case, that's at a measly 15W. That's not necessarily enough to sustain even one core, let alone two. In the 6700HQ's case, that's 45W, easily allowing all four cores to sustain their maximum 3.1GHz speed.

Additionally, the differences in how more threads are achieved makes the multicore comparison useless at best when you're trying to extrapolate an entirely different architecture's performance. Intel's SMT is vastly different from AMD's CMT. And because AMD is using SMT rather than CMT for Zen, that makes comparing the two chips in that way completely useless. Lock Carrizo down to one core per module, get a dual-core Pentium in place of the i7, and set them at the same frequency. Cut out the turbo crap entirely. Then we'll talk. Until then, those numbers are meaningless at best and are more misleading than anything.
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post #64 of 220
I still don't trust the 40% number. If it is accurate, awesome. Unfortunately both AMD and Intel seems to like to quote the best case scenario numbers when referring to % IPC improvement. Like Intel will typically quote something like 15% IPC improvement over previous generation but typical workloads often only show 5% improvements.

But even if AMD's 40% number is closer to a real world 20% that's still a significant improvement.
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post #65 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Numbers are not useless because you havent seen them before. wink.gif

Never claimed otherwise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post


Do you have a source? Until you provide context, those numbers are worthless.

Anyway.

Quote:
FX-8800p up to 3.4GHz
Cinebench R15
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

i7-6700HQ up to 3.5GHz
Cinebench R15
Single: 147
Multi Core: 677

Zen is said to add 40% better IPC which obviously takes "completely different designs" in to consideration.

There is no chance in hell Zen is matching Skylake as its almost 80% above Bulldozer in Single core. Multi Core is over twice as high.

Oh look, that completely falls apart. Why? Inherent differences in how AMD and Intel handle Turbo Core and Boost, respectively, are the obvious ones. But let's dig deeper.

FX-8800P

i7-6700HQ

So what do we have here? We have a horrible comparison. Why? Well, take a look at the frequencies and the TDPs. FX-8800P has a base frequency of 2.1GHz and a turbo speed of 3.4GHz with only a 15W TDP. Know what that means? It throttles. It throttles long before the i7. Because the i7-6700HQ has a base frequency of 2.6GHz, and turbo frequencies of 3.5GHz (one core), 3.3GHz (two cores), or 3.1GHz (three or four cores) in addition to a much higher 45W TDP.

Now, how does a processor's turbo speed work? Well, it relies on a number of factors. The important ones are power drawn, temperature, and of course load on the CPU. If the CPU is idle, it will drop to a slower frequency. If a CPU exceeds some predefined power threshold, it will throttle. And if a CPU exceeds a certain temperature, it will throttle. I'll be nice and assume the chips were both well-cooled, and it's pretty obvious that there was a heavy enough load that turbo speeds would be available. But power consumption? That limit is usually close to the TDP. In the 8800P's case, that's at a measly 15W. That's not necessarily enough to sustain even one core, let alone two. In the 6700HQ's case, that's 45W, easily allowing all four cores to sustain their maximum 3.1GHz speed.

Additionally, the differences in how more threads are achieved makes the multicore comparison useless at best when you're trying to extrapolate an entirely different architecture's performance. Intel's SMT is vastly different from AMD's CMT. And because AMD is using SMT rather than CMT for Zen, that makes comparing the two chips in that way completely useless. Lock Carrizo down to one core per module, get a dual-core Pentium in place of the i7, and set them at the same frequency. Cut out the turbo crap entirely. Then we'll talk. Until then, those numbers are meaningless at best and are more misleading than anything.

That FX-8800p actually looks like it's competing very well for having one third the TDP. AND it packs 512 shaders at ~800Mhz? Is that real? That's nuts, it makes Kaveri's 65w parts look pathetic.
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post #66 of 220
I find it laughable that so many self proclaimed experts are getting their panties in a bunch over what Zen will have or not have. At this stage of the process it's like debating the quarter mile times between a 2020 Mustang and a 2020 Camaro. IT'S ALL SPECULATION!

But, since I don't have a degree in Mayan Philosophy or some other useless field, I'll probably be shouted down and told that my opinion is without merit since I'm just an uneducated hick.thumb.gif
post #67 of 220
Cinebench R15 is one of the worst case scenarios for AMD 15h CPUs.
Similar differences can be observed in FP heavy scenarios where AVX2 is implemented (such as HEVC encoding).
On Haswell, Broadwell and Skylake AVX2 improves the performance by <28%, however on Excavator AVX2 decreases the performance by <3%.
Cinebench R15 doesn´t implement AVX2 though, it is just FP critical.

These numbers have been recorded at static clocks, so no turbo fouling is possible.

Skylake 4C/4T vs Excavator 4C/4T (per MHz):

ST = 0.04333 vs. 0.0247 (+75.4%)
MT = 0.16688 vs. 0.08444 (+97.6%)
Edited by The Stilt - 9/25/15 at 6:14pm
post #68 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Numbers are not useless because you havent seen them before. wink.gif

FX-8800p up to 3.4GHz
Cinebench R15
Single Core: 83
Multi Core: 277

i7-6700HQ up to 3.5GHz
Cinebench R15
Single: 147
Multi Core: 677

Zen is said to add 40% better IPC which obviously takes "completely different designs" in to consideration.

There is no chance in hell Zen is matching Skylake as its almost 80% above Bulldozer in Single core. Multi Core is over twice as high.

Id be mighty impressed if AMD managed to though but that almost seem like a miracle to happen with these numbers
You are seriously like a broken box and are unable to contribute with anything with even the slightest useful content in your posts. You don`t have to write anything when you dont have anything intelligent to say than to troll and to start drama

AMD's TDP like said before throttles down to keep it's consumption and heat output lower. Intel's is flat 45watt. I'd love to see a 45watt carrizo.
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post #69 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

If it can overclock to 4.0 - 4.2 on all 8 cores, but that'll cost around $300 - $400 max.

All Intel has to do is drop a Skylake-E 8 core for $600. But anyway, AMD will be at least competitive again and can improve from there
8 core with 4Ghz after over clock is not good enough. they have to manage to get 3.8 - 4GHz 8 core out of the box. I doubt I will switch to AMD if the performance difference is only <10% diff for the same price.
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post #70 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

8 core with 4Ghz after over clock is not good enough. they have to manage to get 3.8 - 4GHz 8 core out of the box. I doubt I will switch to AMD if the performance difference is only <10% diff for the same price.

Intel doesn't even offer that. 5960X is only 3.5GHz, and that's turbo speed on a single core.
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