Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [PCPER] NVIDIA Publishes DirectX 12 Tips for Developers
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PCPER] NVIDIA Publishes DirectX 12 Tips for Developers - Page 10

post #91 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by airfathaaaaa View Post

proof? yeah i have a proof
the complete absense of a driver so far and the whole documentation that pretty much confirms what everyone was talking about on aots...surely if they have any WORKING way for the driver they wouldnt release such a paper showcasing guidelines about the driver limitation in order for the future games to use...(it will be a complete waste of time to actually have a working driver while the paper suggest otherwise)

also yes the paper is a vendor id guideline in order to build games on nvidia... this is not by any mean the case for intel or amd rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolluck 

The list is very good advice and pretty vendor independent; It's just good general advice for using D3D12. .

This Do and Don't list is pretty sound advice, particularly the DXGI swapchain information. I wish we had this info 6 months ago, as we had to figure out alot of this information the hard way.



Are you blaming Nvidia for providing documentation and tips?

Why don't you argue with Oxide and tell them why Nvidia shouldn't have provided these guides...... rolleyes.gif
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #92 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Exactly.

People keep forgetting that this is a benchmark for a pre-alpha alpha game that is a genre that really doesn't get much action. Now that there is a game demo with a pre-alpha alpha showing in a genre that MUCH more people care about ... first person MMO ... it shows just how little this test really matters. For AOS genre, yeah, it may have a LITTLE impact, especially since nVidia hasn't turned it on in the driver, but once they do, it will make very little difference (especially since even with it on for AMD and off for nVidia, it's not like this is a 20% FPS advantage for AMD). I'm sorry if I offend RTS fans out there, but that is just a statement of fact ... compared to FPS and MMOs, RTS is a tiny sliver of a marketshare.

Also, by the time the game is ACTUALLY RELEASED, things will be much different.

Then there is the whole point that people are waiting with baited breath for cards that are designed AFTER DirectX 12 is largely known about. This whole issue is much adue about nothing. Further, as was already said, I find it TOTALLY LAUGHABLE that people are blasting nVidia for actually releasing information about what is good and not so good to do to Developers, and people are acting like this is a bad thing, even AFTER a developer has publicly said on this very thread ...
It is utterly amazing that people are actually blasting nVidia for releasing information to help developers make games better.
}
The game is almost released, in 3 weeks it wil lbe out, and you call that pre-alpha ?
And what about those drivers, didn't nVidia gave as well dev drivers for the benchmark ? Don't try to put them in good light please.
Also, what do you mean with a genre that doesn't get much action ? You want only FPS games ?
Edited by ku4eto - 9/28/15 at 5:47am
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
post #93 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post


Are you blaming Nvidia for providing documentation and tips?

Why don't you argue with Oxide and tell them why Nvidia shouldn't have provided these guides...... rolleyes.gif
i stated very carefully that i was talking to a person that keeps bashing games that uses certain dx12 features..
also when i say that nvidia provides documentation not to use those certain feature "much" because their driver cant handle it its because they basicly said that... this has nothing to do if the tips are generally ok or not... which we already know from amd and intel documentation that they can easly handle it..
Edited by airfathaaaaa - 9/28/15 at 5:46am
post #94 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post


Are you blaming Nvidia for providing documentation and tips?

Why don't you argue with Oxide and tell them why Nvidia shouldn't have provided these guides...... rolleyes.gif
You seriously cannot disingeniously expect a major developer to taint his credibility all the while throwing himself under the bus just to prove a point - oh you did.
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #95 of 127
I have this feeling that things are already fairly different behind the doors at Oxide. I wouldn't expect there to be too much change in the game however. I'm guessing it will be that same thing:

AMD's mid and low end GPU's benefit and eek out their Nvidia counterparts, while at the high end Fury and FuryX are close to the 980ti and Titan X... trading blows depending on the scene.


Anyway, we all knew it would come to bashing Nvidia if they even so much as suggest that a developer code things in a certain way.. because as far as AMD fans are concerned, any engine/code that doesn't use Async compute is highly inefficient and purposefully gimping AMD.

My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
post #96 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

You seriously cannot disingeniously expect a major developer to taint his credibility all the while throwing himself under the bus just to prove a point - oh you did.

Not sure what you mean. I'm just think that the bickering going on in here over every article by people who already form their opinion by reading the title should take a backseat to the input by a developer.

As for providing "do nots" in their tips, there's nothing disingenuous about that. BMW's owners manual will tell you don't drive with the parking brake applied....that's sound advise.
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #97 of 127
You have to remember that a lot of developers wont be used to this level of control over their code. Providing a list like this may definitely help out some of the smaller teams.

Are people actually hating on this?
My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
post #98 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remij View Post

You have to remember that a lot of developers wont be used to this level of control over their code. Providing a list like this may definitely help out some of the smaller teams.

Are people actually hating on this?
The reason for this is, because nVidia said that they support AC, but now they don't want much AC used. It is obviously that they lied about the AC support feature. They are also putting other stuff that they officially "support" in the donts.
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
post #99 of 127
was
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Not sure what you mean. I'm just think that the bickering going on in here over every article by people who already form their opinion by reading the title should take a backseat to the input by a developer.

As for providing "do nots" in their tips, there's nothing disingenuous about that. BMW's owners manual will tell you don't drive with the parking brake applied....that's sound advise.

that would be very true if the do and do not was reffering to dx12api features as a whole for the gaming industry
but its kinda hard NOT to judge a paper when the first DONT is that

Don’ts

Don’t rely on the driver to parallelize any Direct3D12 works in driver threads
On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible – this doesn’t happen anymore under DX12
While the total cost of work submission in DX12 has been reduced, the amount of work measured on the application’s thread may be larger due to the loss of driver threading. The more efficiently one can use parallel hardware cores of the CPU to submit work in parallel, the more benefit in terms of draw call submission performance can be expected.

and then goes like

Don’ts

Don’t toggle between compute and graphics on the same command queue more than absolutely necessary
This is still a heavyweight switch to make

Don’t toggle tessellation on/off more than absolutely necessary
Again, this is still a heavyweight switch to make


Don’t forget that PSO creation is where shaders get compiled and stalls get introduced
It is really important to create PSO asynchronously and early enough before they get used
Tread carefully with thread priorities for PSO compilation threads
Use Idle priority if there is no ‘hurry’ to prevent slowdowns for game threads
Consider temporarily boosting priorities when there is a ‘hurry’

and keeps going

Don’t use D3D12_SHADER_VISIBILITY_ALL if not necessary
There is overhead in the driver and on the GPU for each shader stage that needs to see CBVs, SRVs, UAVs etc.


you see the irony?rolleyes.gif
post #100 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

The reason for this is, because nVidia said that they support AC, but now they don't want much AC used. It is obviously that they lied about the AC support feature. They are also putting other stuff that they officially "support" in the donts.
And you don't think AMD has a list of DO's and DONT's for developers... even though they officially support?


There's just some things that you DO and some things that you DONT.

I'm sure if AMD was to make a DO/DON'T list it might look a little something like this:

DO:

-Use DX12

DON'T:

-Use DX11

wink.gif
My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
My main PC
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700k Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene Nvidia GTX 1080Ti G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSKeyboardPower
Samsung 850 EVO  Windows 10 Razer Blackwidow Chroma EVGA Supernova 1300w 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Software News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [PCPER] NVIDIA Publishes DirectX 12 Tips for Developers