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[Fool] Intel Will Finally Be Upping Its Core Counts With Cannonlake - Page 8

post #71 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

without mainstream CPU being hex core, how would expect software developer to write hex core for it?

This is chicken & egg situation again.

The same way they do for graphics cards. Most people don't use a $175+ graphics card on their computer and somehow we have drivers and games that can use a $650+ video card ... even 2 or 3 or 4 of them in some cases.
post #72 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Why does mobile get cores for no reason while PC needs it. You can always use more cores in PC.
The majority of pcs sold are for corporate customers who do not need cores for the work those computers are doing. Users like us are a tiny minority. Corporate customers build workstations with xeons that need serious core performance, same xeons that would be mostly out of reach for us in terms of price.

I just don't see it happening.
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post #73 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

without mainstream CPU being hex core, how would expect software developer to write hex core for it?

This is chicken & egg situation again.

I don't think it's a question of how many cores they should write for, can't they just make the software multi-threaded in a general sense, so no matter how many cores you have they'll all get utilised. The way I think is that if they are writing software for a particular CPU (i.e. a game for an intel quad core), it's not much different than it being single threaded. But then again, I have no idea about software development and the complications surrounding CPU usage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

Scrub lords. Been waiting for 6 generations for a hexa-core on the mainstream platform. Now it's too late, Zen it is no matter what.

I like this attitude. You had your chance Intel . . .
post #74 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

More Cores!




Funnily enough, that CPU has double the MT performance of a 6700k and half of the ST performance.
Quote:
I kinda disagree actually. If, say, 6 cores becomes the mainstream then we may finally start to see programming that fully utilizes those cores

It's not easy or even possible for various types of loads with our current hardware and understanding of programming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

^If even 10% of the load has to be ran on one thread, an 8 core CPU will only see ~4.4x speedup, not ~8x speedup. It only takes a very small segment of the workload to grind everything to a halt.

A lot of programs these days are divided into stuff like encoders, renderers etc that can split workloads almost evenly onto dozens of threads - or other workloads that need some significant portion of the load on one thread (or a few threads, each with a different high load) that stop seeing significant performance gains upon reaching a certain core count (that's often 2-5)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

I think you're underestimating the i3 a bit tongue.gif

You'd be hard pressed, REALLLLLLLLY hard pressed, to push an i3 to above a constant 90% utilization while doing office work.

I actually wouldn't know how to.

Skylake i3's are actually like 3.8ghz and very capable. I'd rather have one of those than an i5 2400! Due to IPC gains, frequency gains (i5-2400 runs at 3.2ghz with 4 threads loaded) and hyperthreading, they can actually almost match (~95% of performance) an i5 2400 for video encoding, probably more like 85-90% in some other 4 threaded workloads while being faster in some other loads with fewer threads.

Of course if you go back 4-6 gens, i3's are rather awful compared to other CPU's available today
Edited by Cyro999 - 10/1/15 at 8:53am
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post #75 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by L36 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Why does mobile get cores for no reason while PC needs it. You can always use more cores in PC.
The majority of pcs sold are for corporate customers who do not need cores for the work those computers are doing. Users like us are a tiny minority. Corporate customers build workstations with xeons that need serious core performance, same xeons that would be mostly out of reach for us in terms of price.

I just don't see it happening.

This.

Intel have clearly bracketed markets and for good reason.

Want a 6 core,buy HEDT. I really dont see the problem here,you wont get a six core cheaper than the current x99 lineup even if they did.

For example.
5620k @ £299
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-546-IN

v

6700k @ £320
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-581-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=3069

v

4790k @ £270
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-539-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=567


A LOT of moaning over nothing......


The comment about Xeons and power are incorrect,you buy Xeons for bombproof stability for 'mission critical' usage,not performance unless its heavily threaded or server applications.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 10/1/15 at 9:29am
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post #76 of 150
Even with Amdahl's law doesn't the benefit of more cores come from the reduction in cache thrashing and context switch costs? I mean if you had enough cores you could basically create dedicated parts of the CPU for things like RT tasks, kernel/OS, serial compute intensive tasks, parallel compute intensive tasks, and all without having to worry about or reducing the costs of context switches and cache thrashes. I mean isn't part of the reason you can have faster phones using slightly less or equal power because they can get to idle so fast and then shut off unneeded cores?
     
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post #77 of 150
Might alter my planned upgrade path. Was planning for Skylake-E. More cores at the consumer level would be tempting. Have to see how this plays out. I'm still happy on my 4790k and can wait it out. 2017 isn't that far away and two years pass quickly.
     
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post #78 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

does it have to be more than a few manufacturing lines?

as clocknut mentioned, there only has to be 3lines.
1st is the mainstream i3/core-M line with IrisPro for mobile and NUCs and simpler office OEM PCs.
2nd is the server/workstation/desktop market with no-iGP Xeon/i7/i5/i3, servers are normally ran headless to begin with, and workstations doesn't sell without a workstation GPU.
3rd is the budget atom/pentium/celeron with Iris for ultra portables and NUCs.

these manufacturing strategy are actually very worth it, its very efficient in terms of wafer area due to proper allocation of cores and iGP.
i3 and core-M tier dies have only up to 2 cores with hyperthreading, with the massive percentage being the iGP, hypothetically it takes as much area as a 4core with an iGP.
with no iGP taking up for the majority of desktop/workstation/server chips, the die size would be notably smaller, making it highly effective in terms of yield per wafer.
same goes with atom line being their best competitor for ultra portables, atom cores themselves are somewhat tiny yet are decently fast, the only problem it currently has is it's lack-luster iGP.
so what does these represent for intel's manufacturing line? yield per wafer would be effectively better, die per wafer would be much higher, this means margins per die would be vastly higher.


on a side note, why would an office PC even require an i7? workstation PCs would opt for a genuine workstation graphics card instead.
i can't imagine a scenario where IrisPro would be more economical than a no-iGP xeon paired with a workstation graphics card.

Again, you're disregarding the fact that mobile and desktop chips come from the same manufacturing lines. There are quad-core laptops being sold, so it makes perfect logical sense to use these chips on mainstream desktop as well. Additionally, your preconceived notions on how things should be has no bearing on reality.
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post #79 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

indeed, DX12 and Vulkan alone will guarantee this.
it doesnt warrant a performance increase if the engine is singlethreaded
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

i3s are largely irrelevant for anything but office working. And even then, they are quite useless for people who do more than one thing at once.
for many people it does better performance than a dual core with OC.in games
Edited by PontiacGTX - 10/1/15 at 2:38pm
post #80 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

it doesnt warrant a performance increase if the engine is singlethreaded

So we should be glad that there's a wealth of engines for people to use at a small fee that will be utilizing DX12 for what it's worth?

Why would you write an engine for DX12 that's single threaded when DX11.3 or whatever it was, would be a lot easier to write an engine for, if you want to keep it single threaded?

Quote:
for many people it does better performance than a dual core with OC.in games

I've never seen a single person claim this, but then again, I am no professional on this topic. Feel free to link me up to your sources! = D
Also the comment you replied to was discrediting the performance of i3's to a degree I find questionable, maybe even offensive, as well, but I wouldn't go out of my way to discredit the performance of overclocked dualcores in the process. (at least dualcores that are close to equal in core design to said i3s, a typical situation in which you'd see comparison between i3s and dualcores.)

Anyway, if you ask me, it's always better to address the points as they are presented, instead of contextualizing in some way that might not be needed. It's a really simple and rather questionable point to begin with ('i3s are for office working'), and I dont like leaving it stand like that, while moving on to a different topic. (i3s vs dualcores)
Edited by Tivan - 10/1/15 at 2:53pm
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