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[Fool] Intel Will Finally Be Upping Its Core Counts With Cannonlake - Page 10

post #91 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearPeace View Post

How are you so confident that half the price of CPUs will vanish if the iGPU goes away? They would have to create a whole new die design, put it under many rounds of scrutiny and bug testing, manufacture it, perform binning, and finally sell it as a low volume part. All of that sounds extremely expensive, and for what benefit? People will buy the 6700k or whatever the highest end mainstream chip regardless of whether it has an iGPU or not. Not many people care, or even notice.

You are all asking to mould the mainstream platform for your interests, and that's just simply how it works. I don't get why Intel needs to modify the entire platform so a handful of enthusiasts can pay less for more cores.

There is a whole platform crafted for enthusiast but you all pretend like it just doesn't exist.

simply because die per wafer yields will almost double without costing more per wafer, aside from costs of adjustments.
actually it doesn't cost that much, they already recalibrate their manufacturing lines every time they'd test out a new prototype so whats a few extra recalibration?

and, how would having CPU only have more bugs than a CPU+iGP package?

benefits is higher die yields per wafer, less manufacturing costs or simply higher margin per die, more overall manufactured dies per batch.
e.g. imagine i7s costs $330 right now, removing the iGP would reduce it's die size by 1/3.
this means there'd be 50% more dies per wafer with minor cost increase, they could thus decrease MSRP to $250, yet they'd still gain 10% higher margins per die.
not only this, they'd have 50% more manufacturing yield per batch, this means their manufacturing output would be far better.
Edited by epic1337 - 10/1/15 at 7:54pm
post #92 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

quad core laptops are indeed present, but how many quad core laptops relies on IrisPro instead of stuffing them with GTX980M GPUs?
why are you defending integrated graphics so much that you'd entirely disregard discrete graphics card as if they're the most useless thing in the world?

it does, in fact Xeons are vastly cheaper than desktop market pricing is what makes this all the more redundant, since pairing a Xeon with GPU is faster.
the only issue with Xeons is that market availability is somewhat deprived, otherwise most of the buyers would've gone for the cheaper Xeons.

iGP on the upper-end of the CPUs are wholly redundant, its what makes these chips vastly over expensive, otherwise you could've gotten that quadcore laptop for $100~$200 less.

plus, issues with mobile platforms is heat and TDP allocations.
without the iGP on the CPU chip, the die would be smaller and the TDP headroom would be fully allocated for the CPU, which means the CPU wouldn't throttle when the GPU is in use.
with the graphics processor ran externally from the CPU, the hot-spot is now located on two places instead of a single massive heat-source.

You are the one that doesn't seem to realize that your vision of things has no correlation whatsoever with reality. Fine, I get that you want things for cheaper, but as someone that helps run a small business, I logically make educated guesses why things aren't done a certain way. Additionally, making a processor half the size doesn't make it half the cost; most of the cost of a processor is in the R&D.

Also, mainstream socket Xeons are the same die as mainstream i7s. They simply have the iGPU permanently disabled, probably dies that had defects in the iGPU and were branded as Xeons. That's called being financially smart.
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post #93 of 150
As I said, I don't see any evidence that adding more cores has significantlylimited OCing so I'm not sure why we have to use an "either or" approach to this topic? Why can't we just get a hexa core i7 to replace the current quad core mainstream i7 without sacrificing OCing? My 4930K OC's pretty much on par with the 3770K despite its extra cores and threads...
post #94 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You are the one that doesn't seem to realize that your vision of things has no correlation whatsoever with reality. Fine, I get that you want things for cheaper, but as someone that helps run a small business, I logically make educated guesses why things aren't done a certain way. Additionally, making a processor half the size doesn't make it half the cost; most of the cost of a processor is in the R&D.

Also, mainstream socket Xeons are the same die as mainstream i7s. They simply have the iGPU permanently disabled, probably dies that had defects in the iGPU and were branded as Xeons. That's called being financially smart.

the R&D isn't manufacturing cost, its investment cost.
with the manufacturing lines being somewhat more efficient in terms of yields of die per batch, they can recoup their investment costs faster.
cheaper dies sells easier than expensive dies, plus balancing the usage case of CPU and CPU+iGP as against their price would make them all the more efficient per wafer yields.
not to mention binning a CPU only die is much simpler than a CPU+iGP die where not only do they have to bin by CPU functionality, they also have to bin by iGP functionality.

yes the Xeons are derived from the mainline with iGPs, the iGP part disabled, with the cost of the wasted die area off-loaded to those successful chips.


i don't see the reason as to why optimizing their lines for better yields isn't a better approach than relying on one giant manufacturing line.
a single extra line without iGPs isn't gonna cost them too much, yet theres three market segments that can use such processors, the desktop, the servers and the workstations.
servers and workstations in particular loves raw core performance, and rather than using iGPs they'd use workstation GPUs in massive arrays.
Edited by epic1337 - 10/1/15 at 8:11pm
post #95 of 150
Too bad they don't do it on Kabylake already ugh, I hope I haven't already posted that yesterday, because I wanted to biggrin.gif
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post #96 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongForce View Post

Too bad they don't do it on Kabylake already ugh, I hope I haven't already posted that yesterday, because I wanted to biggrin.gif

Intel is obsessed with lakes and bridges that go over them.

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post #97 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Intel is obsessed with lakes and bridges that go over them.

hahahaha, i doubt they'd go rainbow next, or would they?
post #98 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

the R&D isn't manufacturing cost, its investment cost.
with the manufacturing lines being somewhat more efficient in terms of yields of die per batch, they can recoup their investment costs faster.
cheaper dies sells easier than expensive dies, plus balancing the usage case of CPU and CPU+iGP as against their price would make them all the more efficient per wafer yields.
not to mention binning a CPU only die is much simpler than a CPU+iGP die where not only do they have to bin by CPU functionality, they also have to bin by iGP functionality.

yes the Xeons are derived from the mainline with iGPs, the iGP part disabled, with the cost of the wasted die area off-loaded to those successful chips.


i don't see the reason as to why optimizing their lines for better yields isn't a better approach than relying on one giant manufacturing line.
a single extra line without iGPs isn't gonna cost them too much, yet theres three market segments that can use such processors, the desktop, the servers and the workstations.
servers and workstations in particular loves raw core performance, and rather than using iGPs they'd use workstation GPUs in massive arrays.

That would make sense… if Intel didn't go to a new manufacturing process and/or architecture every year and a half. There simply is no time to perfect a manufacturing line in that short timespan.
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post #99 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

That would make sense… if Intel didn't go to a new manufacturing process and/or architecture every year and a half. There simply is no time to perfect a manufacturing line in that short timespan.

i think they could, if they don't just abruptly stop the older generation's manufacturing lines, actually they even make way for refreshes from time to time.

i mean, it would work relatively well if they could sell the older generations at a much cheaper price, mostly due to manufacturing optimizations.
the new generation would then be regarded as a relatively niche or higher end market, while the older generation would be mostly regarded as mainstream.


of course the effects of this would be that the overall sales would be split into two categories.
but in the long term, both generations will sell far better, specially when the new becomes old.
think of it's advantage as getting the best out of each generation, meaning they aren't wasting their R&D effort.
Edited by epic1337 - 10/1/15 at 9:54pm
post #100 of 150
Hey guy those ubisoft game show.

4 core multithreading

And an increase in fps with a 5 core doing background task.


Still 3 core unusedfor fx and still eat alive an i3

And take into account that most fx core are not saturated so maybe 60-80% load per core


I3 100% scalling melting
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