Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [TweakTown]AMD might have trouble sourcing HBM2 for its next-gen video cards
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TweakTown]AMD might have trouble sourcing HBM2 for its next-gen video cards - Page 6

post #51 of 90
I no longer look at the source but at the person providing me with it. Trust me, it's much better way to gauge objectivity on this site. I agree with Mahigan, just so nobody misunderstands.
Snappy
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790K 1.428V 4900MHz GA-Z97X-Gaming G1 WIFI-BK Sapphire R9 Fury X Corsair CMD16GX3M4A2133C9 Dominator Platinum 16... 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
Sandisk Extreme Pro 240GB Corsair H110i GT Seasonic Platinum SS-760XP2 Cooler Master Storm Stryker 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Mamba 4G 2012 Edition Genesis Soft Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
Snappy
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790K 1.428V 4900MHz GA-Z97X-Gaming G1 WIFI-BK Sapphire R9 Fury X Corsair CMD16GX3M4A2133C9 Dominator Platinum 16... 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
Sandisk Extreme Pro 240GB Corsair H110i GT Seasonic Platinum SS-760XP2 Cooler Master Storm Stryker 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Mamba 4G 2012 Edition Genesis Soft Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #52 of 90

So what ? Is that really problem ? We're told by AMD that they won't get fee from Nvidia for using HBM.Now :

 

Quote:
If AMD gets first , then Nvidia loses.
If Nvidia gets first , then AMD loses.

 

Why this should be translated? I mean This should be :

Quote:
 If AMD gets first , then consumers win.
 If Nvidia gets first , then consumers win.
post #53 of 90
Quote:
Making this sort of innovation happen was a broadly collaborative effort. AMD did much of the initial the heavy lifting, designing the interconnects, interposer, and the new DRAM type. Hynix partnered with AMD to produce the DRAM, and UMC manufactured the first interposers. JEDEC, the standards body charged with blessing new memory types, gave HBM the industry's blessing, which means this memory type should be widely supported by various interested firms. HBM made its way onto Nvidia's GPU roadmap some time ago, although it's essentially a generation behind AMD's first implementation.

AMD did create the technology itself. Not simply the interposer. It all started 7 years ago, within AMD, without Hynix in the picture. This information came from Joe Macri himself, the man who oversaw the creation of HBM. AMD sought Hynix in order to produce the first chips, as AMD has no fabs with which to produce DRAM.

AMD then applied for a JEDEC open standard license. This license ensures that AMD has equal-rights access to the production of HBM, as does nVIDIA, and that prices will be negotiated as per the consent of the members of the JEDEC group.

Knucklehead... I am using logic as well as knowledge of how the industry functions. I would have thought that our last exchange, in terms of Open Standards, would have led you to make an effort and correct your ignorance on the topic at hand. Open Standards are about adding a degree of fairness into everyday business dealings. The dog eat dog variant of Capitalism, you espouse in your posts, need not apply here. We're also not talking about State-Capitalist Patent enforcement of proprietary technologies. We're discussing the JEDEC Open Standards and licensing as well as the rules which accompany the acquisition of such a license from the JEDEC group.

This is not the first time either. AMD developed GDDR3 and GDDR5 as well:
Quote:
“We do internal development with partners, we then take that development to open standards bodies and we open it up to the world,” he said. “This is how Nvidia got GDDR3 and how they got GDDR5. This is what AMD does. We truly believe building islands is not as good as building continents.” - Joe Macri
Quote:
Macri is probably in a position to know: Besides being AMD’s Chief Technology Officer, Macri has long been a chairman at JEDEC, the group that blesses memory standards for the industry. AMD did indeed beat Nvidia in introducing graphics cards with GDDR3 and GDDR5, but that always brings concerns over yields with new technology.
Quote:
HBM’s performance-to-power ratio is so good and appealing, Macri said he expects the new memory to be adopted in other areas besides big GPUs. We can expect HBM to appear on CPUs with integrated graphics chips, as well as servers and workstations. That would appear to put HBM on a collision course with a similar memory technology Intel and Micron are working on called Hybrid Memory Cube, or HMC. HMC is an advanced stacked memory design, but unlike AMD, Intel and Micron are trying to adopt it without the slow rule-by-committee of JEDEC.

JEDEC Board of Directors:
Name Company
Joe Macri (Vice- Chairman at Large) Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Perry Keller Keysight Technologies
Cecil Ho CST, Inc.
Stephan Rosner Cypress Semiconductor
Nick Lycoudes (Vice-Chairman at Large) Freescale Semiconductor
Belal Gharaibeh (Executive Vice-Chairman) Hewlett Packard Company
Gary Tressler (Personnel Vice-Chairman) IBM Corporation
Rami Sethi Integrated Device Technology
Paul Fahey Intel Corporation
John Terpening Kingston Technology Company, Inc.
Todd Farrell Micron Technology, Inc.
James Aralis Microsemi Corporation
Edmund Poh Molex, Inc.
Jayesh Bhakta Netlist
Roelof Salters NXP Semiconductors
Howard Sussman (Vice-Chairman at Large) On Semiconductor
Clement Fang Oracle
Chris Socci (Marketing Vice-Chairman) PNY Technologies, Inc.
Hung Vuong Qualcomm Inc.
Mian Quddus (Chairman) Samsung Semiconductor
Eugene Hong Bae Kim Sk Hynix
Michael Hundt STMicroelectronics, Inc.
Brent Rhoton Texas Instruments
K.C. Chen Wintec Industries, Inc.

Source:
http://techreport.com/review/28294/amd-high-bandwidth-memory-explained
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2922599/amd-talks-up-high-bandwidth-memory-that-will-power-its-next-gpus-pokes-nvidia-too.html
https://www.jedec.org/about-jedec/board-directors
https://www.jedec.org/about-jedec/committee-chairs
Edited by Mahigan - 10/1/15 at 3:21pm
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
post #54 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

AMD did create the technology itself. Not simply the interposer. It all started 7 years ago, within AMD, without Hynix in the picture. This information came from Joe Macri himself. AMD sought Hynix in order to produce the first chips, as AMD has no fabs with which to produce DRAM.

AMD then applied for a JEDEC open standard license. This license ensures that AMD has equal-rights access to the production of HBM, as does nVIDIA, and that prices will be negotiated as per the consent of the members of the JEDEC group.

Knucklehead... I am using logic as well as knowledge of how the industry functions. I would have thought that our last exchange, in terms of Open Standards, would have led you to make an effort and correct your ignorance on the topic at hand. Open Standards are about adding a degree of fairness into everyday business dealings. The dog eat dog variant of Capitalism, you espouse in your posts, need not apply here. We're also not talking about State-Capitalist Patent enforcement of proprietary technologies. We're discussing the JEDEC Open Standards and licensing as well as the rules which accompany the acquisition of such a license from the JEDEC group.

Source:
http://techreport.com/review/28294/amd-high-bandwidth-memory-explained
Still it wouldn't have been bad for AMD to license HBM, sharing profits with Hynix. It would have given them some good money from nVidia chips.
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
post #55 of 90
It might be that HBM2 is too late and/or expensive for the first batch of 16 nm cards. If they can get 8 GB HBM1 chips going it might be plenty enough for their purposes next year. It's not like more bandwidth is helping them all that much with the Furies. And if AMD doesn't see HBM2 as viable yet, I doubt Nvidia will either. At best they might have a similar scenario where they use HBM2 in the biggest chip and it ends up super expensive and with poor availability.
Megurine
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 2500K Asus P8Z68-V MSI GeForce GTX 970 HyperX Blu 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Vertex 3 Scythe Mugen II Win 10 64 bit Philips BDM4065UC 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ GW2760HS Corsair K60 Super Flower 650W modular Fractal Design R4 
MouseAudioAudio
Logitech G700 Audio pro T8  Creative X-Fi 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Megurine
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 2500K Asus P8Z68-V MSI GeForce GTX 970 HyperX Blu 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Vertex 3 Scythe Mugen II Win 10 64 bit Philips BDM4065UC 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ GW2760HS Corsair K60 Super Flower 650W modular Fractal Design R4 
MouseAudioAudio
Logitech G700 Audio pro T8  Creative X-Fi 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #56 of 90
Shout out to Mr. Dave Erskine and Mr. Chris Hook.
[3'43": '...making the spec...']

Edited by mtcn77 - 10/1/15 at 3:08pm
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
The Machine
(14 items)
 
Nexus 7 2013
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10 6800K Asus F2A85-V MSI 6870 Hawx, VTX3D 5770, AMD HD6950(RIP), Sap... G.skill Ripjaws PC12800 6-8-6-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate 7200.5 1TB NEC 3540 Dvd-Rom Windows 7 x32 Ultimate Samsung P2350 23" 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic s12-600w CoolerMaster Centurion 5 Logitech G600 Auzen X-Fi Raider 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Quad Krait 300 at 1.5Ghz Qualcomm APQ8064-1AA SOC Adreno 320 at 400mhz 2GB DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
32GB Internal NAND Android 5.0 7" 1920X1200 103% sRGB & 572 cd/m2 LTPS IPS Microsoft Wedge Mobile Keyboard 
PowerAudio
3950mAh/15.01mAh Battery Stereo Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #57 of 90
What a load of rubbish LOL
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 4770k @ 4.5ghz MSI PC MATE Z97 EVGA gtx 780ti Samsung green 8gb 30nm 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M4 128GB OCZ vertex 4 128gb Windows 7 64bit BenQ G2420HDBL LED Monitor 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Antec TruePower Moduler 750w Zalman z9 plus Microsoft Sidewinder X8 Wireless 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 4770k @ 4.5ghz MSI PC MATE Z97 EVGA gtx 780ti Samsung green 8gb 30nm 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M4 128GB OCZ vertex 4 128gb Windows 7 64bit BenQ G2420HDBL LED Monitor 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Antec TruePower Moduler 750w Zalman z9 plus Microsoft Sidewinder X8 Wireless 
  hide details  
Reply
post #58 of 90
There are only three things I'm sure about when it comes to GPUs.

1) New GPUs come out later than I'd like them to come out.

2) New GPUs are more expensive than I'd like them to be.

3) New GPUs are less powerful than I'd like them to be.
current rig
(4 items)
 
  
CPUGraphicsGraphicsKeyboard
2500k R9 290X Tri-X GTX 680 Filco Majestouch 2 Brown Ninja 
  hide details  
Reply
current rig
(4 items)
 
  
CPUGraphicsGraphicsKeyboard
2500k R9 290X Tri-X GTX 680 Filco Majestouch 2 Brown Ninja 
  hide details  
Reply
post #59 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

There are only three things I'm sure about when it comes to GPUs.

1) New GPUs come out later than I'd like them to come out.

2) New GPUs are more expensive than I'd like them to be.

3) New GPUs are less powerful than I'd like them to be.

Bingo
My Rig
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770k @ 4.1Ghz  Asus z87-Plus XFX Double D r9 290X G Skill Sniper 8GB @ 2133 
OSMonitorKeyboardMouse
Windows 10 Pro 27 Inch 1440P PLS @ 110Hz Mechanical Keyboard MX Red Steelseries Kana 
Mouse PadAudio
Steelseries Mouse pad Samson SR850 Headphones/Asus Xonar Sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
My Rig
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770k @ 4.1Ghz  Asus z87-Plus XFX Double D r9 290X G Skill Sniper 8GB @ 2133 
OSMonitorKeyboardMouse
Windows 10 Pro 27 Inch 1440P PLS @ 110Hz Mechanical Keyboard MX Red Steelseries Kana 
Mouse PadAudio
Steelseries Mouse pad Samson SR850 Headphones/Asus Xonar Sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #60 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

You know so much.

Why don't you link to the whole document so that people can see just how wrong you are and how when you only take one paragraph out of context, it shows a whole nuther thing.

https://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/JM5.pdf

Yeah, it shows how much I know.


nVidia or the chip makers are doing any restraint of trade. They are maximizing what people will pay for it. If nVidia is willing to pay $1.50 instead of $1.00, then so be it.

Uniformity of conduct does not mean uniformity of prices.

Etc.

So why don't you specifically tell everyone EXACTLY what in the 14 page document nVidia or anyone else would be violating. I'll wait.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 10/1/15 at 3:46pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [TweakTown]AMD might have trouble sourcing HBM2 for its next-gen video cards