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[Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated) - Page 3

post #21 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

It's not that hard to make a cpu that would outperform Intel's.

The hard thing is to make a cpu with that performance that is affordable. It remains to be seen where those lines will cross.

Making an affordable enthusiast CPUs line-up better than the one of Intel is not impossible, just requires things that AMD doesnt have or isnt capable of doing. AMD wasnt even able to beat Nvidia despite having an an entirely new architecture and newest HBM technology. While I am pretty sure that Pascal is going to be a significant leap in performance even though it will use a later HBM generation. It sounds like I am bashing AMD but the truth is that since the 2XX series, AMD has been going downhill. Took ages to release a new line-up which didnt even meet expectations and ended up being as good as that times current Nvidia GPUs. The only benefit is the cheaper price and smaller cards, performance is on par if not worse as mentioned previously. So I wouldnt be surprised if the the situation with the upcoming CPUs is going to have the same fate. AMD is welcome to prove me wrong with their upcoming Zen but I really doubt that will happen.
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post #22 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybertox View Post

Making an affordable enthusiast CPUs line-up better than the one of Intel is not impossible, just requires things that AMD doesnt have or isnt capable of doing. AMD wasnt even able to beat Nvidia despite having an an entirely new architecture and newest HBM technology. While I am pretty sure that Pascal is going to be a significant leap in performance even though it will use a later HBM generation. It sounds like I am bashing AMD but the truth is that since the 2XX series, AMD has been going downhill. Took ages to release a new line-up which didnt even meet expectations and ended up being as good as that times current Nvidia GPUs. The only benefit is the cheaper price and smaller cards, performance is on par if not worse as mentioned previously. So I wouldnt be surprised if the the situation with the upcoming CPUs is going to have the same fate. AMD is welcome to prove me wrong with their upcoming Zen but I really doubt that will happen.
I'm sorry, what? Fiji is very much the same GCN as in Tahiti even in name; just with clock gating, improved ROPs and new memory. It's very much not a new architecture by any definition. Even the 200-series is only a bit over an year old, and it's rather obvious they didn't bother creating several new chips on 28nm when they would just lose money by doing it compared to keeping the rebrands.

And don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying that Zen will the faster than Skylake or whateverlake it will be up against. Having a smaller core that is withing a spitting distance with most instructions and still smaller is advantage in itself. While having faster threads is nice there is something to be said for power and die sizes if your cores as, say, 20% smaller and practically at the same level. The worst thing they could do is go straight head-to-head with Intel with a massive core, against Skylake which they have spent howevermany billion perfecting on a very good process node.
post #23 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

2x128 on this design will be just as effective as 2x256 on Intel's design for all non-AVX instructions.

Zen can also do 4x64 instructions as well, and certain operations should be able to do 8x32 (32-bit being the near-universal floating point size).

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that AMD didn't prioritize AVX performance, with their strong desire to lean on GPU compute (for obvious reasons).

I think they're moving towards being able to directly move certain floating point vector math to the GPU without any special coding tools or compilers needed. All-on-CPU. In theory, it wouldn't be that difficult, but it would absolutely introduce latency, so they would need to be able to fetch a significant amount of instructions and just have the GPU work on all of the likely branches all at once, then when the logic units know which results are needed, simply pull in the finished results. The end result would be an apparent near-zero latency for certain floating point operations thumb.gif

Big and wicked Radeon Cores are waiting,biggrin.gif and they are very impatient to take over its APU tasks.wink.gif

Edited by Asterox - 10/4/15 at 5:05am
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post #24 of 758

Too many AMD news' and no @Seronx around here?

    
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post #25 of 758
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Originally Posted by imran27 View Post

Too many AMD news' and no @Seronx around here?
Rather wait for Crane/Sweeper actually.
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post #26 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

The core can execute 10 functions concurrently. This is instruction level parallelism (doing int/fp/store/etc all at the same time) rather than thread level parallelism that can use more cores.

Think of breaking down a complex algebra problem into chunks that can be done at the same time. (A+B)*(C-D) is a good simple example. You would do A+B and C-D at the same time in the same CPU. Then you could do the multiplication in one of the FPU units to free the other general purpose math pipelines to start the next equation. All of this is decided in the instruction decoder (real time) usually if my memory serves right, rather than the compiler doing the work (pre-computed).

Thank you so much, that's an amazing answer!

I think I now understand, thanks again <3
post #27 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterox View Post

Big and wicked Radeon Cores are waiting,biggrin.gif and they are very impatient to take over its APU tasks.wink.gif

What is this, Crysis meets Star Wars? lachen.gif
post #28 of 758
I do not understand OP. Will OCN tell me if this means Zen will be roughly equivalent to Sandy?
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post #29 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noufel View Post

If the price is right AMD could have a hit especialy with an 8 cores 16 threads zen cpu to compete with the i7, and in the end we'll see price drops hopefully thumb.gif
i would laugh my ass off looking at a 16 core zen cpu being beaten by a 4690k
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post #30 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12 View Post

I do not understand OP. Will OCN tell me if this means Zen will be roughly equivalent to Sandy?

You can't really tell 100%, but it has enough resources that it should beat out Sandy in integer, in terms of IPC.

It's definitely a good way to gain 40% increase in IPC and provide potentially exceptional SMT performance (which I didn't really expect from them).
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