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[Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated) - Page 5

post #41 of 758
All other things being equal, I wouldn't necessarily go with Intel over AMD. What's the draw? Warranty? The color blue? You hate change? Their flux smells different? It's a new motherboard either way.

If Zen is engineered well enough to trade blows with Intel, then absolutely I would REWARD that.

The instruction set is called AMD64, people. Don't worry. It's native.
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post #42 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

I severely doubt they will be able to provide 15% better performance, however 15% less performance but for hundreds of dollars cheaper might make people switch sides.

Like imagine an AMD Zen 8 Core with IPC of Haswell-E or Ivy-E for $600 competing against a Skylake-E 8 Core for $1000.

That's quite a competitive product.
what I meant is they need to offer 15% better price/performance.

if the same performing CPU are price the same as Intel's, just as how their poorly priced Fury X vs 980ti then I will stick to intel
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post #43 of 758
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

what I meant is they need to offer 15% better price/performance.

if the same performing CPU are price the same as Intel's, just as how their poorly priced Fury X vs 980ti then I will stick to intel

I agree with this, if it becomes a 980 Ti vs Fury X with Zen vs Skylake-E/Kaby Lake then yes it will definitely be problematic as you see with the 980 Ti vs Fury X. The majority of people simply just buy a 980 Ti because it is clearly faster and overclocks better, therefore allowing more for your $650. Whereas the Fury X performs worse than a 980 Ti and actually doesn't really overclock at all, but yet still maintains a $650 price tag.

If AMD does this again with their Zen CPUs, they will have a problem moving units as seen with their Fury lineup.
post #44 of 758
5 pipelines per thread!

Integer/Memory is a downgrade. Floating Point is an improvement. It would be a nice phone processor, but for servers it is subpar.
Edited by Seronx - 10/5/15 at 1:22am
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post #45 of 758
That was good read. Ofc in the end benchmarks will tell .. once it releases which is so far off its even a bit too early for hype.
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post #46 of 758

I think a lot of people are assuming that AMD will simply price themselves out of competition by keeping some kind of parity with Intel. I'm not sure if they're basing this solely off the value of the brand, or the public's reception of the FX-9000 chips.

 

AMD did the smart thing by pricing Fury X and Nano like they did. There's nothing out there like these products, and they priced them at $650 because they expected consumers to snap them up despite that price tag. What ended up happening in the launch week? All available Fiji-based cards got snapped up within hours. The market supported that $650 price point and so long as AMD continues to sell out on every Fiji chip they make, they're perfectly happy with not dropping the price. 

 

If Zen costs $1000 for a dual-threaded, eight-core chip that keeps up with the Core i7-5960X, who are we to deny them the right to begin pricing it like that? If the market doesn't support that price point, AMD will notice it in their partner's reported sales figures, and drop the price accordingly in markets where it isn't selling. Tom Peterson, in a PCPer interview, told the audience that this is why they priced the GTX 980 like they did, and why it is sold as a high-end product - consumers were buying it up in droves, so why sell themselves short on a product they're seeing healthy margins on? Intel does the exact same thing with the Xeon family. 

 

Zen's going to be good, that's what I believe through following all the leaks and hints about the chip's structure. It'll be a strong contender for multi-threaded performance, it has more of a focus on compatibility with what Intel's doing rather than trying to play their own game, and it's going to be the first new CPU architecture from AMD in almost five years. A lot has changed in that time and they're not going to throw away good opportunities now like previous management did in the past. This is going to be exciting stuff to play with.

post #47 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

I think a lot of people are assuming that AMD will simply price themselves out of competition by keeping some kind of parity with Intel. I'm not sure if they're basing this solely off the value of the brand, or the public's reception of the FX-9000 chips.

AMD did the smart thing by pricing Fury X and Nano like they did. There's nothing out there like these products, and they priced them at $650 because they expected consumers to snap them up despite that price tag. What ended up happening in the launch week? All available Fiji-based cards got snapped up within hours. The market supported that $650 price point and so long as AMD continues to sell out on every Fiji chip they make, they're perfectly happy with not dropping the price. 

If Zen costs $1000 for a dual-threaded, eight-core chip that keeps up with the Core i7-5960X, who are we to deny them the right to begin pricing it like that? If the market doesn't support that price point, AMD will notice it in their partner's reported sales figures, and drop the price accordingly in markets where it isn't selling. Tom Peterson, in a PCPer interview, told the audience that this is why they priced the GTX 980 like they did, and why it is sold as a high-end product - consumers were buying it up in droves, so why sell themselves short on a product they're seeing healthy margins on? Intel does the exact same thing with the Xeon family. 

Zen's going to be good, that's what I believe through following all the leaks and hints about the chip's structure. It'll be a strong contender for multi-threaded performance, it has more of a focus on compatibility with what Intel's doing rather than trying to play their own game, and it's going to be the first new CPU architecture from AMD in almost five years. A lot has changed in that time and they're not going to throw away good opportunities now like previous management did in the past. This is going to be exciting stuff to play with.

I couldn't agree more than ^this. smile.gif
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post #48 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

I think a lot of people are assuming that AMD will simply price themselves out of competition by keeping some kind of parity with Intel. I'm not sure if they're basing this solely off the value of the brand, or the public's reception of the FX-9000 chips.

They are basing it off people's perception of the brand. Being the price/performance leader doesn't necessarily do much for the bottom line.

AMD needs to shake off that label. The only way to do it is to offer a great product at a proper price point instead of discounting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

AMD did the smart thing by pricing Fury X and Nano like they did. There's nothing out there like these products, and they priced them at $650 because they expected consumers to snap them up despite that price tag. What ended up happening in the launch week? All available Fiji-based cards got snapped up within hours. The market supported that $650 price point and so long as AMD continues to sell out on every Fiji chip they make, they're perfectly happy with not dropping the price. 

Absolutely true for Fury-X but not for Nano. If you wanted a Nano, Newegg has had at least 1 of the 4 brands in stock since launch.

But that's ok too. Nano was meant as a niche product and this is kind of an experiment by AMD to see if there is a big enough market to support it. They didn't intend to sell them in the same quantities as the normal Fury cards.
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post #49 of 758
with their recent product quality & performance. It will take multi-years of consistent great product b4 they can shake off that bad brand image.

Fury X is selling off quick because there are enough hype for a HBM GPU + small form factor friendly + the combination of very limited quantity of fury X + there is enough AMD fan to buy that thing. I highly doubt they can sell as well as 980Ti if fury X is mass produced.

Zen on overrall need to be 15% better than intel on price/performance, otherwise they wont work.
Edited by Clocknut - 10/5/15 at 3:53am
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post #50 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

5 pipelines per thread!

Integer/Memory is a downgrade. Floating Point is an improvement. It would be a nice phone processor, but for servers it is subpar.

There's no downgrade. The module has 2xALU and 2xAGU per integer core, Zen has 4xALU ad 2xAGU per integer core.

The AGUs are undoubtedly capable of handling all the needs of the system, as the module design has ample AGU performance and the AGUs are probably now being better utilized and are interacting with a massively improved cache system.

It's all wins.
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