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[Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated) - Page 6

post #51 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

5 pipelines per thread!

Integer/Memory is a downgrade. Floating Point is an improvement. It would be a nice phone processor, but for servers it is subpar.

Pretty much this.
post #52 of 758
Zenfone anyone? oh wait, Asus has one tongue.gif!
 
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post #53 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

with their recent product quality & performance. It will take multi-years of consistent great product b4 they can shake off that bad brand image.

Fury X is selling off quick because there are enough hype for a HBM GPU + small form factor friendly + the combination of very limited quantity of fury X + there is enough AMD fan to buy that thing. I highly doubt they can sell as well as 980Ti if fury X is mass produced.

Zen on overrall need to be 15% better than intel on price/performance, otherwise they wont work.

Brand Image is not as important with computer parts, according to history anyways. Point blank if you offer a better product at the same price then you're going to go with the better product, unless you have some sort of bias towards the other.

Zen doesn't need to be XX% better than Intel in price and performance. It could have worse performance, and a lower price, It could have better performance and higher price. They just need to find the median and price it competitively to attract sales. If their product is good they will begin to recapture market share. AMD could outsell Intel 9 to 1 for the next 5 years and still not get past 50% market share, thanks to the current volume of the PC market.
Edited by ebduncan - 10/5/15 at 6:40am
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post #54 of 758
It's hard to tell at the moment what the performance will be, but theoretically, compared to Haswell this should win in a lot of benchmarks. We still don't know what ops the ALUs can do and we don't know AGU width, but let's do some basic comparison to Haswell. Integer wise if the AGUs can feed the ALUs, theoretically both Haswell and Zen should be equal here. However if I understand this correctly, back-end wise, seems like Zen can issue 8 ops. So Haswell would experience a bottleneck if it's doing integer and floating point operations at the same time, whereas Zen would not. Floating point advantage for desktop users actually goes to Zen here. 256bit ops are still rarely used these days. On 128bit Zen can issue more FADD or FMUL ops. Haswell really only has an advantage for doing 2x256 bit FMA, but these are rarely used in desktop applications. Also Zen should use less power thanks to the smaller FPU.
But it's hard to say how the performance will be in reality. We still don't know a lot of details about Zen. Most importantly we don't know what clocks the 14/16nm node will reach. I have a feeling intel has a better process for 14nm and will have higher clocks, which will make them victorious in overall performance. But on the same clocks I think Zen can compete with skylake in desktop space.
post #55 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurdomantbh View Post

However if I understand this correctly, back-end wise, seems like Zen can issue 8 ops.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I though it was able to decode only 4 instructions per cycle which means only 4 ops could be issued if that is all that can be decoded right? So it should be equal to Haswell in that area too unless I am mistaken
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post #56 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Maybe I read it wrong, but I though it was able to decode only 4 instructions per cycle which means only 4 ops could be issued if that is all that can be decoded right? So it should be equal to Haswell in that area too unless I am mistaken
It can decode 4 macro-ops. It is unknown if the decoders can decode FastPath double singularly or if they need to fuse.

If we are going based on AMD64 manuals, the decodes should be 4 FastPath doubles, 8 FastPath singles, ~~length Vector{Microcode}. If not it just points out Zen is just a stop gap for NG Bulldozer 5{Crane} and 6{Sweeper}.
Edited by Seronx - 10/5/15 at 11:03am
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post #57 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Maybe I read it wrong, but I though it was able to decode only 4 instructions per cycle which means only 4 ops could be issued if that is all that can be decoded right? So it should be equal to Haswell in that area too unless I am mistaken

Sorry if I'm unclear. I'm talking about the execution pipeline. From the GCC patch it seems like Zen is 4 int + 4 fpu. And Haswell seems to have only 4 for both int and fpu in port 0, 1, 5 and 6. I'm not 100% sure if I'm right on this, I'm not an expert.
Edited by spurdomantbh - 10/5/15 at 11:21am
post #58 of 758
Zen looks very promising indeed. The big (HUGE) question mark is going to be the process node characteristics. It's going to be essential for Samsung's 14nm FF LPP to translate appropriately to a desktop/server arch design. If it performs as needed/intended, Zen is going to be very close to Haswell, but it needs to be right around 4 GHz, with a little OC headroom. On the other hand, if the process struggles to achieve 3.2- 3.5 GHz, Zen could be seen as a "what could have been" semi-disappointment.

Fingers crossed.
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post #59 of 758
i was going to wait for zen buy after hearing about its delay release of end of 2016 early 2017 i went ahead and upgraded my 980x to skylake with a 6700k.

intel is already on skylake, and skylake brought a decent boost over haswell and a worth while upgrade boost over all previous generations under haswell. intel is planning on releasing its skylake refresh at the end of 2016 / early 2017 with kaby lake. if by the end of 2016 / early 2017 zen releases and only matches haswell, intel architecture from 2013 in performance, amd will once again still be two generations behind intel in terms of performance.

i'm not saying haswell performances isn't great, no its awesome, but if amd want's to be successful and really cause people to switch over it needs to at least match intel's current generation in terms of performance. toss in a nice platform with a rich feature set, and competitive pricing, and amd can be hugely successful. if it just matches haswell it will just be another bulldozer for them.
post #60 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffins View Post

i was going to wait for zen buy after hearing about its delay release of end of 2016 early 2017 i went ahead and upgraded my 980x to skylake with a 6700k.

intel is already on skylake, and skylake brought a decent boost over haswell and a worth while upgrade boost over all previous generations under haswell. intel is planning on releasing its skylake refresh at the end of 2016 / early 2017 with kaby lake. if by the end of 2016 / early 2017 zen releases and only matches haswell, intel architecture from 2013 in performance, amd will once again still be two generations behind intel in terms of performance.

i'm not saying haswell performances isn't great, no its awesome, but if amd want's to be successful and really cause people to switch over it needs to at least match intel's current generation in terms of performance. toss in a nice platform with a rich feature set, and competitive pricing, and amd can be hugely successful. if it just matches haswell it will just be another bulldozer for them.

It depends how Zen ultimately clocks, and how they price it. Attaining near parity with Haswell would be a monumental accomplishment. That would be ~60% improvement over Vishera silicon. Even if Zen does not quite hit Haswell parity, it most certainly would NOT be "another Bulldozer." BD failed to exceed its predecessor.
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