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[Various] AMD's Zen To Have 10 Pipelines Per Core - Details Leaked In Patch (Updated) - Page 56

post #551 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

and on another note, when will they start doing something about their UMI interconnect?
even intel had gone DMI 3.0 with nearly 4times more bandwidth than AMD's.

AMD uses a proprietary link to the southbridge? I thought it just ran over Hyper Transport on the 990FX platform and was PCI-E on the FM sockets?
Honestly I would love for AMD to go full Hyper Transport on Zen and use four, 32-bit HT 3.1 links (HT 3.1 bandwidth is 25.6GB each way, PCI-E 3.0 is 15.75GB each way). Since Hyper Transport 3.1 is able to natively communicate PCI-E as well and has more bandwidth than PCI-E 3.0 the GPUs would be able to natively communicate fine with no performance hit, but it would allow AMD to make a special version of their GPUs where they could communicate at the full, higher HT bandwidth when used on an AMD system giving an advantage. This would also be a way to go up against Nvidia's NVLink interface. Four links would mean the southbridge and other misc. external IO could run on one and have HUGE bandwidth available to never bottleneck the fastest SSDs, and then two links could be given to card expansion slots (would be the equivalent of 32 PCI-E 3.0 lanes to expansion slots) and the last HT link could just be null on the desktop platform but used for processor communication on server MP systems.

HT is used to talk to the north-bridge, which on 990FX then splits it into 42 PCI-e lanes (x4 for SB, 32 for "GPUs" (x16/x8/x4), 6 for onboard and x1/x4 lanes and stuff.) They run 8-bit bi or 16-bit uni directional 2.6Ghz HT bus on 990FX.

Beyond AM3+, HT is not used as a north-bridge is not used. They rely on a new XBar and PCI-e directly.
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post #552 of 758
HyperTransport is 16 bit uplink and 16 bit downlink. Two links on consumer boards 3-4 on dual socket boards.

8/8, 16/8 and 8/16 are compatibility modes that some BIOS's give you the option of selecting

HT 3.1 can do encapsulated PCIe 3.0 AFAIK and uses a similar protocol.
Edited by KarathKasun - 12/23/15 at 7:50am
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post #553 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

HyperTransport is 16 bit uplink and 16 bit downlink. Two links on consumer boards 3-4 on dual socket boards.

8/8, 16/8 and 8/16 are compatibility modes that some BIOS's give you the option of selecting

HT 3.1 can do encapsulated PCIe 3.0 AFAIK and uses a similar protocol.

Such a shame they use HT 3.0 on AM3+ then. 3.1 is irrelevant. HT is dead for AMD after the NB is on the die.

And no. Consumer AMD CPUs get one active HT link, not two. You need one HT link per thing you are connecting to, and in AM3's case that means one to the NB. You can not run dual-CPU with an 8350. Socket C32 and G34 are LGA, they aren't even compatible.

AM3+; one link
CPU1 -> Chipset

C32; two links
CPU1 -> Chipset
CPU1 -> CPU2

G34; "four" links, dual-die CPUs connect with another HT link
CPU1-1 -> CPU1-2
CPU1-1 -> Chipset
CPU1-1 -> CPU2-1
CPU1-1 -> CPU3-1
CPU1-1 -> CPU4-1

And in extreme situations, you can find 8P boards with G34 that allows access to the final HT links, but not in a full mesh. They have more physical connections on the die (4, actually), but you do not get them all.

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post #554 of 758
Heard a rumor that Intel is going to dump the current Skylake Z socket for Kaby Lake. That's a short socket life, eh?

Also, since Broadwell is embarrassing Skylake in gaming benchmarks perhaps AMD should be targeting Broadwell instead of Skylake. rolleyes.gif

I am assuming that Kaby Lake is going to basically be Skylake + Broadwell's EDRAM. So, if we're talking about Zen we might want to talk about L4 cache.
post #555 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Heard a rumor that Intel is going to dump the current Skylake Z socket for Kaby Lake. That's a short socket life, eh?

Also, since Broadwell is embarrassing Skylake in gaming benchmarks perhaps AMD should be targeting Broadwell instead of Skylake. rolleyes.gif

I am assuming that Kaby Lake is going to basically be Skylake + Broadwell's EDRAM. So, if we're talking about Zen we might want to talk about L4 cache.

Broadwell has no market footprint whatsoever. EDRAM is also pointless on desktop,as it skyrockets costs. i7 .5775C always rivaled i7 5820k in price and I guess most people would rather get 50% extra CPU over some EDRAM.
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post #556 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Heard a rumor that Intel is going to dump the current Skylake Z socket for Kaby Lake. That's a short socket life, eh?

Also, since Broadwell is embarrassing Skylake in gaming benchmarks perhaps AMD should be targeting Broadwell instead of Skylake. rolleyes.gif

I am assuming that Kaby Lake is going to basically be Skylake + Broadwell's EDRAM. So, if we're talking about Zen we might want to talk about L4 cache.

According to the leaked Roadmap they will be a Skylake eDRAM cache variant that is release separately from Kaby Lake, So I assume kaby lake is something quite different from that.
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post #557 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Broadwell has no market footprint whatsoever.
Because Intel has artificially constrained supply to prevent it from competing with Skylake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

EDRAM is also pointless on desktop
nope

Broadwell embarrasses Skylake in more than one site's gaming benches. And, I'm not talking about integrated graphics.
post #558 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Because Intel has artificially constrained supply to prevent it from competing with Skylake.
nope

Broadwell embarrasses Skylake in more than one site's gaming benches. And, I'm not talking about integrated graphics.

Intel hasn't artificially constrained supply, their 14nm yields were horrid initially. Broadwell is more expensive mostly because EDRAM is expensive. If intel is to start offering Kaby Lake with a similar configuration ,expect a quad core to rival in price BW-E hexacores and not be far away from the octocores. Who would opt for such a thing?
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post #559 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Intel hasn't artificially constrained supply, their 14nm yields were horrid initially.
So, you're saying it made sense to offer all the Broadwell parts initially when yields were horrid and then not offer them when the yields got better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Broadwell is more expensive mostly because EDRAM is expensive.
Which changes my point about them artificially constraining the supply so as not to have Skylake compete with them how? Why not sell a more inefficient part when you can sell EDRAM parts as an upgrade down the road to the same customers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

If intel is to start offering Kaby Lake with a similar configuration ,expect a quad core to rival in price BW-E hexacores and not be far away from the octocores. Who would opt for such a thing?
Broadwell MSRP was vastly lower than the current gouging price due to Intel's refusal to make enough of them to meet demand.
post #560 of 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

So, you're saying it made sense to offer all the Broadwell parts initially when yields were horrid and then not offer them when the yields got better.
Which changes my point about them artificially constraining the supply so as not to have Skylake compete with them how? Why not sell a more inefficient part when you can sell EDRAM parts as an upgrade down the road to the same customers?
Broadwell MSRP was vastly lower than the current gouging price due to Intel's refusal to make enough of them to meet demand.

I am not sure I can follow your train of thought. The only reason we got eDRAM on desktop is that intel's laptop range chips share dies with the mainstream range of desktop chips. This solution was targeted for iris pro integrated graphics enabled chips, CPU related workload benefits are a pleasant side effect. It makes much more sense to buy a 5820k over a 5775C if you want a better CPU. Yes, the L4 chip will beat the hexacore in ST workloads that are cache sensitive but it will otherwise either be very close (normal ST) or get handily beaten (MT workloads).

By the time 14nm yields were improved , intel was ready to move to Skylake, there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to have two generations of processors side by side in the market,it would saturate the supply lines, create unnecessary inventory burden to OEMs and confuse consumers. You see, L4 isn't a core characteristic of broadwell, something without which this core could not perform. It is more of a curiosity ,an experiement from intel or just the outcome of surplus mobile cores that intel brought to desktop as a stunt to appease shareholders for totally cancelling desktop BW. Because let us not kid ourselves, this is exactly what happened, the market footprint of dekstop broadwell is practically nonexistant.

If a full desktop broadwell range of products was to be fielded, it would be just like every other desktop intel chip since Nehalem that came before or after them. With L3 only. If Kaby Lake is to have yet another pair of iris pro style of SKUs they will too be sold in low numbers. There is no market big enough for those, plain and simple. Zen has nothing to gain by specifically targeting SKUs that have no market presence.
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